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Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

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Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#331
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so sad that Sweden doesn't allow real beer in the shops like Norway does.

I don't know, I have started to think we shouldn't sell any type of hard drugs, like alcohol and tobacco, in grocery stores. Why not sell these products in separate specialized stores, like we already do with Vinmonopolet?

> any type of hard drugs, like alcohol and tobacco, in grocery stores.

I volunteered at an addiction and methadone clinic for awhile. I recommend you try it then come talk about what “hard drugs” are.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#332
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep; societally, they've got a very different attitude towards privacy. Everyone's salary is publicly available online. (So's the fact that you looked!) https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40669239

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

> As said in the article, we already share

The article says that a number of people uses «loyalty programs». It mentions tracking though «debit card», and last time I checked Norwegians still have circulating cash. It does not mention Google, but surely there will be Norwegians that do not share data with it. Let us highlight that surely, some do not share at all.

I do not understand, contextually, the idea of «balanc[ing] the private sector power».

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about the tracking done by reward systems then that's a voluntary agreement that people enter into. You can choose not to use a rewards program. As far as I know, if you use a credit card they only know the total of how much you spent and once again you can choose not to use a credit card or bank card and pay with cash if you wish. This proposed data collection has no opt out option. It's kind of ex…

> As far as I know, if you use a credit card they only know the total of how much you spent Oh, no, no. They report so much more: Merchant name Purchase amount Date Billing zip code Sales tax amount Tax indicator Merchant postal code Merchant tax ID Invoice number Order number Customer code (if purchasing cards) Item commodity code(s) Item description(s) (SKU) Unit price(s) Quantity Unit of measure Extended price Dis…

The information you linked doesn't seem to indicate that a grocery store would do this.

> Level 3 credit card data involves large transactions that take place primarily with B2B or business-to-government (B2G). These transactions take place using corporate purchasing cards, which allow the companies or government agencies to monitor purchases and have access to detailed spending reports.

Instead, it seems that level 1 would be what most businesses that sell to consumers would use

> Level 1 data primarily refers to small business-to-consumer (B2C) transactions. This level only requires the following information for credit card transactions:

Merchant name Purchase amount Date Billing zip code

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, what is the worst possible consequence of a supermarket being able to track you? At worst, I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain. I highly doubt this has ever happened, since it's bad for business. The usual consequence for getting tracked at the supermarket is getting a discount on certain groceries via a loyalty program, with zero downsides for…

Corporations cannot put me in jail. Corporations cannot (for the most part) just take my money. Other than denying me service, corporations have little power over me, except that which is granted to them by the government itself. Government tracking has the potential to be much worse than corporate tracking. (I think I'm agreeing with your post, but I'm not sure)

In theory, a democratic government is supposed to be beholden to its people, but the problem you are describing occurs when the government is no longer under the power of the population.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#335
post #54
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please consult the official list for alternatives.” More likely a new way to tax stuff that the government does not like. Eating too much red-meat from methane-producing cows? Extra climate change tax for you!

They should probably think about the Natural Gas that makes up 60 % of the total value of Norway's exports before they go virtue signalling to people eating meat from farms that use tractors.

[deleted]

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Yes, in the mundane literal sense, they are subject to competition in a way government is not. This is blindingly obvious to anyone whose brain hasn't been rotted by extremist populist discourse. We (rightfully) worry about excessive market power when companies are still nowhere close to the degree of monopoly that govt has by design. I constantly make decisions at a moment's notice to patronize stores other than Ama…

With respect-

I know what you mean when you say "government is monopolistic" but with a moment's reflection perhaps you will agree that- certainly in the US- it is an incorrect statement.

There is the abstraction called "government" which in its definition implies a singleton-ness- even this in practice fails the test because every US jurisdiction is overseen by multiple overlapping "governmental" authorities, and people interact with different ones often in conflict with each other all the time.

However the more significant objections to "government is monopolistic" are these:

In the "monopoly" sense there is literally no actual service in which any layer of US government is the sole provider. Mail delivery? Nope- UPS, Fedex, etc. Rule making? Ha. Contract law exists and in simple obvious ways even supercedes constitutional protections. Policing? Lots of private security around. Education? Tons of private schools around, including frauds that siphon public dollars while excluding public kids. Health care? Don't make me laugh/cry at the private predatory brutally expensive evilness that is so much of the US healthcare "system". Money supply? Nope, nearly all dollars are created and manager by private entities. Military? Also plenty of options here, none in any sense "well-regulated".

Which brings me to the "-olistic" suffix of monopolistic, which implies an intent to monopolize, a set of behaviors that prevents competition and the existence of alternatives to the singleton. In this way, as the above shows and which is plainly evident- there is virtually no domain in which the US government acts as a predatory singleton. The "-ilistic" is the most deceptive and incorrect sense of the statement "government (in the US) is monopolistic" because it simply isn't.

Amazon and Walmart, however- are defining the practice.

And when it comes to "nominal democratic control"- don't get me started. A responsive customer service agent is the devil's version of democracy. No thank you.

Cheers.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> But you don't get to live near society and not "opt in" to our laws. You can protest the laws, you can choose to break the laws (and face any consequences). But you can't just pretend that anarchy should be the default status until you sign some imagined physical contract. Prohibition was defeated because people broke the laws curtailing their individual freedom to drink alcohol. Individuals have been smoking marij…

> Individuals have been smoking marijuana despite a federal and state bans on it with the latter being being lifted recently but speedily

sigh I was hoping we’d see recreational In Florida, as even the older more conservative people seem to have embraced it.

I believe it was supposed to be a ballot option, but it was struck down apparently because pendantic lawyers took issue with a single phrase. I’m not sure why that means it has to be removed for this ballot, why can’t the proposers just fix the wording and resubmit.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#339
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please consult the official list for alternatives.” More likely a new way to tax stuff that the government does not like. Eating too much red-meat from methane-producing cows? Extra climate change tax for you!

this would arguably be a great thing

[deleted]

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#340
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep; societally, they've got a very different attitude towards privacy. Everyone's salary is publicly available online. (So's the fact that you looked!) https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40669239

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

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