Norway to track all supermarket purchases? • Hacker News Board

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#311

Post by singularity2001 » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:07 PM UTC

karencarits wrote: post #178

One should be aware that Norway already has very comprehensive registers and databases about the population. Currently, it has only been a benefit, I think, as it enables detailed quality control of say health care services and high-quality register studies. For example, all health/hospital records of deceased Norwegians are digitalized ten years after death and added to a national register. No way to refuse. In my o…

If of all countries Norway turns into a digital totalitarian state it would break my heart. With much power comes much … risk.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#312

Post by avgcorrection » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

Beltalowda wrote: post #128

basisword wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is no for stupid solutions like tracking everybody’s meat consumption and a government limiting it. You will be swiftly told to fuck off (and rightly so). You need to get people on your side and contributing without massively changing their lifestyles, instead of alienating them. We need massive reductions in business contributions to climate change and we need investment in current clean energy solutions…

I don't necessarily disagree in principle, but I think what you're saying will be very hard or impossible. Those "business contributions to climate change" exist because they're producing goods that consumers want; you can't significantly reduce that without also affecting consumer lifestyles, by reducing the options for the number of goods, or making them more expensive. Further research in clean energy is all very…

Are consumers social planners?

Did consumers plan the massive road infrastructure in America? Did consumers make public transportation a fifth-rate form of transportation? Did consumers plan American Suburbia post-WWII? Did consumers decide that housing in central locations should be so expensive that they have to live a driving-distance from work (see: bad public transportation)? Did consumers decide that the goods that they consume have to take multiple trips around the world?

Why blame the output sink for so much?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#313

Post by burnished » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:09 PM UTC

davoneus wrote: post #189

verisimi wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you agreed to be managed by the government right? Remember when they came round and you signed the contract? To pay 40%+ in taxes? For the ability to vote once every 4-5 years for someone to represent you? You don't? Nor me. Governments presume to have authority over everything in their domain. The belief in the false idea of 'government' by the majority is what sustains their power. It is actually immoral and fr…

What a load of BS. The predominant form of social organization is from a majority status. The people who voted in that government are the ones who direct the government resources, and are determining what it's polices are towards the governed. The people in Norway have a clear and simple choice; they can sit and do nothing, or they can do something. Action might entail moving the hell out of the country and complain…

Wouldn't it be wild if there were some sort of middle ground between "say and do nothing" and "die in a failed militant uprising"?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#314

Post by apienx » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:09 PM UTC

Coincidentally, the WEF's individual carbon footprint tracker initiative was recently announced. https://youtu.be/_j1d_2yTRRA

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#315

Post by missedthecue » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:09 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #301

WanderPanda wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

Government certainly doesn't have a monopoly on violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)#H...

If you have to go back a two centuries to prove a point, you're probably not right.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#316

Post by Krasnol » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:10 PM UTC

...and than there are People who wonder why Germany is so reluctant with their personal data, leaving cash behind, having a general ID, and so on.

Sometimes it is wise to look at the past and learn from it.

Datensparsamkeit ftw!

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#317

Post by twobitshifter » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:10 PM UTC

hhjinks wrote: post #238

verisimi wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you agreed to be managed by the government right? Remember when they came round and you signed the contract? To pay 40%+ in taxes? For the ability to vote once every 4-5 years for someone to represent you? You don't? Nor me. Governments presume to have authority over everything in their domain. The belief in the false idea of 'government' by the majority is what sustains their power. It is actually immoral and fr…

You're free to live in the woods if you don't like the deal. You don't get to use any of society's infrastructure if you don't opt in, though. You won't be taxed, of course, since you can't engage with any economic activity within society. I'm sure you could make a nice commune in the wilderness somewhere. Just don't bring anything from society with you, like tools, clothes, food, livestock, seeds. Good luck out ther…

Where can this be done legally in the US?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#318

Post by avgcorrection » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:15 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #32

Worth remembering the whole reason this can even be suggested is that Scandies tend to have high trust. Not saying there won't be similar voices to what is in this comment section, but plenty of Norwegians will take this at face value, an honest attempt to gather socially useful information, part of a tradition that has historically functioned reasonably well.

Saying that it is just about trust can be misleading. The trust has to be rationally based. It’s not some kind of society-wide ex nihilo personality trait.

I think you can trust the government more in Scandinavia than in the US. Both dispositions are relatively rational.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#319

Post by panarky » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:16 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #122

jvm___ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're already being tracked by the grocery stores, wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart vs. the grocery industry who just wants to sell you more?

Grocery stores who track me are subject to the pressures of competitive enterprise. The government is not. And that's to say nothing of the fact that, at least in the US, about 50% of the entire population at any given time tend NOT to believe that the government has their best interest in mind

>> the more we know about you, the more efficiently we can create policies to control your behavior

If I was an evil mastermind dominating you for my own nefarious purposes, I probably wouldn't start by monitoring the pasta in your pantry.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#320

Post by chupy » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

WanderPanda wrote: post #293

wiz21c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

Check out the Dole corporation to see how evil can they actually be - https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/the-dark-and-bloody-hist.... Nestle with the classic baby formula marketing to 2nd/3rd world countries, chinese milk scandal etc and probably most other multinationals are in the same league.