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Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

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Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#301

Post by bobthepanda »

WanderPanda wrote: post #293
wiz21c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

Government certainly doesn't have a monopoly on violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)#H...

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#302

Post by ceejayoz »

WanderPanda wrote: post #293
wiz21c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

It’s tragic that people think companies like Equifax can’t have government-level negative impacts on people.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#303

Post by zerox7felf »

WanderPanda wrote: post #293
wiz21c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

Hard-power violence is mostly exclusive to governments, but don't underestimate the power of soft-power "violence" and coercion.

Another thing that sets the government and private sector apart is that the government is under (mostly, even if indirect) democratic control, or otherwise accountable to the public, whereas the private sector can get by with bad press, so long as they can continue to operate. As an individual of average wealth, it is far less difficult to influence government policy and politicians as opposed to doing the same to a private organization.

Really, this is not about choosing between "good" and "evil", it is about choosing which evil you are most likely to be able to contain.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#304

Post by yossarian1408 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #98
throwaway4aday wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about the tracking done by reward systems then that's a voluntary agreement that people enter into. You can choose not to use a rewards program. As far as I know, if you use a credit card they only know the total of how much you spent and once again you can choose not to use a credit card or bank card and pay with cash if you wish. This proposed data collection has no opt out option. It's kind of ex…

> It's kind of exasperating how little people think about the difference between voluntary participation and forced participation It is totally exasperating when folks excuse corporation tracking you as 'voluntary agreement' when the only alternstive to tracking is forgoonf essential services like mobile phones and living like a hermit

Mobile phones an essential service?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#305

Post by HWR_14 »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #270
HWR_14 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain. I highly doubt this has ever happened, since it's bad for business. I'm sure it has, it's just done in a subtle manner you don't notice. > What is the worst realistic consequence for a government...tracking all grocery purchases? As many other posters have noted, it's reasonable to imagine a progressive sin tax: That was…

>I'm sure it has, it's just done in a subtle manner you don't notice. How do you figure? In all grocery stores I’ve visited, loyalty card discounts are clearly noted on the item's price tag. I've never seen any hidden discounts (or surcharges) that pop up only at checkout. >Just swipe your "tax setting" card before you swipe anything else. Very true, but decentralizing progressive sales tax collection is rife for fra…

> In all grocery stores I’ve visited, loyalty card discounts are clearly noted on the item's price tag. I've never seen any hidden discounts (or surcharges) that pop up only at checkout.

Yes. A surcharge won't show up there. The most common way to do things is to have a very high base price and give people variable discounts.

> decentralizing progressive sales tax collection is rife for fraud.

So is distributing sheets of paper that I can exchange for goods and services. It's pretty cheap and easy to do this and I bet it can be completely done offline with security good enough that the biggest issue will be retailers letting people skip the excise tax.

As a sidenote - why are people concerned with the government putting a sin tax on meat?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#306

Post by ben_w »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #231
jvm___ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're already being tracked by the grocery stores, wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart vs. the grocery industry who just wants to sell you more?

Realistically, what is the worst possible consequence of a supermarket being able to track you? At worst, I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain. I highly doubt this has ever happened, since it's bad for business. The usual consequence for getting tracked at the supermarket is getting a discount on certain groceries via a loyalty program, with zero downsides for…

The worst case scenario is that the country changes its mind about morality (happens a lot and not just as a result of invasions and coups), and suddenly a particular group which can be identified by shopping preferences is now at risk.

Imagine if this was happening in America before and then during the Prohibition era and how grape juice and yeast sales would look.

Or abortifacients and birth control pills today, given the relevant news story in the US (consider what could plausibility happen not just what actually has happened) and certain politicians describing the latter as the former.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#308

Post by burnished »

hhjinks wrote: post #238
verisimi wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you agreed to be managed by the government right? Remember when they came round and you signed the contract? To pay 40%+ in taxes? For the ability to vote once every 4-5 years for someone to represent you? You don't? Nor me. Governments presume to have authority over everything in their domain. The belief in the false idea of 'government' by the majority is what sustains their power. It is actually immoral and fr…

You're free to live in the woods if you don't like the deal. You don't get to use any of society's infrastructure if you don't opt in, though. You won't be taxed, of course, since you can't engage with any economic activity within society. I'm sure you could make a nice commune in the wilderness somewhere. Just don't bring anything from society with you, like tools, clothes, food, livestock, seeds. Good luck out ther…

You, uh, sorta can't. There is no unowned land left. You can squat but that is living as an outlaw.

Also >You don't get to use any of society's infrastructure if you don't opt in, though. You don't represent the rest of us, so why are you pretending to the authority to make stipulations like this? I'd imagine if there were any outlands left to retreat to, you would at least have some bartering going on there at the fringes.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#309

Post by ortusdux »

I'm still surprised that the major credit card companies and banks in the US have not started transitioning to digital receipts. Several retailers and smart POS systems link your credit card number to your email and send you receipts automatically.

It could be a dual edged sword for the banks, as a more informed consumer might budget more carefully and spend less, but the data collected would be quite valuable. It would not be a hard sell to consumers - "Shop with blank and you never need to worry about paper receipts again!".

On a separate note, thermal receipt paper is a terrible source of BPA/BPS plastics. There are alternatives that use vitamin C, but they are rare.

https://www.pca.state.mn.us/green-chemistry/bpa-thermal-pape...

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