Norway to track all supermarket purchases? • Hacker News Board

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#291

Post by _njyk » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:41 PM UTC

meowtimemania wrote: post #285

aaomidi wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't wait for this all to eventually leak. Countries need to realize data is not "free" and has a cost to it.

Is it not is already publicly known? Don’t think there’s anything to leak

Yeah it's public so nothing to leak, it's meant to be like this, same in Estonia, your address is public, your name, your birthdate, +/- your face picture, all the land you possess, you can interrogate who is the owner of a specific car plate without any restrictions, see a map of all the traffic accidents with precise information (date, why, what, what was damaged). Then you have semi-public data like phone location (you just need to sign NDA), and guess what ? Everything is fine.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#292

Post by kzrdude » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:41 PM UTC

lambdaba wrote: post #227

swader999 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's essential.

Seconded. I'm on an all-meat diet and I turned my health around thanks to it. Most often people who advocate eliminating meat look sickly, because they are.

I'm all for meat, fish and vegetables. That's the healthiest slice of the available foods. Any reason you've cut out vegetables entirely? I'd consider eating lots of green veg, while avoiding the starchy ones. My entrance point was AIP which basically forces one to do this.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#293

Post by WanderPanda » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:41 PM UTC

wiz21c wrote: post #259

ceejayoz wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep; societally, they've got a very different attitude towards privacy. Everyone's salary is publicly available online. (So's the fact that you looked!) https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40669239

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#294

Post by philistine » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

taylorius wrote: post #204

jvm___ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're already being tracked by the grocery stores, wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart vs. the grocery industry who just wants to sell you more?

At least you (hopefully) know what the Supermarket is up to - as you say, they just want to sell you more stuff. The government on the other hand - who knows what plans they might cook up.

That's incredibly facile. The supermarket can, and will, sell all your data because there's profit in it. Now try to make sense of how you know what they're up to.

At least with the government, you have a ton of elected representative who can help you if the government does something dumb with the data.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#295

Post by dvdkon » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

hhjinks wrote: post #238

verisimi wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you agreed to be managed by the government right? Remember when they came round and you signed the contract? To pay 40%+ in taxes? For the ability to vote once every 4-5 years for someone to represent you? You don't? Nor me. Governments presume to have authority over everything in their domain. The belief in the false idea of 'government' by the majority is what sustains their power. It is actually immoral and fr…

You're free to live in the woods if you don't like the deal. You don't get to use any of society's infrastructure if you don't opt in, though. You won't be taxed, of course, since you can't engage with any economic activity within society. I'm sure you could make a nice commune in the wilderness somewhere. Just don't bring anything from society with you, like tools, clothes, food, livestock, seeds. Good luck out ther…

That's the thing: you can't really do that. And the argument shouldn't be "society vs wilderness", but "existing vs new society".

In the past, it was really hard to sever ties with one society and government and go form a new one, but you could actually find places where nobody would immediately chase you away (even then most expansion was at the expense of natives, though). Nowadays that's impossible. A small number of people could maybe live in Siberia undetected, but that's more like partisan warfare than establishing a new country: The moment Russian government finds out anyone's there, they're getting deported. Your best bet for not living in an existing state is amassing an army (likely illegal in your home country) and invading a weak state. Good luck.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#296

Post by jacooper » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #279

jacooper wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once we exsuahst all options to reduce climate change with limited impact on the customer, things like renewable energy(people don't care where their energy comes from), replacing unnecessary plastics with paper, etc, we can then talk about things like limiting meat consumption. But affecting peoples lifes without actually tackling industries and corporation that do way more harm is just stupid and basically serves O…

>>Those "business contributions to climate change" exist because they're producing goods that consumers want; you can't significantly reduce that without also affecting consumer lifestyles, by reducing the options for the number of goods, or making them more expensive. >without actually tackling industries and corporation that do way more harm is just stupid I think you're missing the parent poster's point, which is…

There is a difference between affecting the consumers life to change to renewable energy and affecting the consumers life to virtue signal by banning meat while ignoring corporations.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#297

Post by WanderPanda » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

gonzo41 wrote: post #54

ekianjo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please consult the official list for alternatives.” More likely a new way to tax stuff that the government does not like. Eating too much red-meat from methane-producing cows? Extra climate change tax for you!

They should probably think about the Natural Gas that makes up 60 % of the total value of Norway's exports before they go virtue signalling to people eating meat from farms that use tractors.

But they are also exporting green electricity certificates to balance it off. #greenwashing

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#298

Post by ceejayoz » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:47 PM UTC

verisimi wrote: post #276

epgui wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Government is a form of slavery.

> 'Democracy' is really 'representative democracy' - you vote for someone to represent you for 4-5 years.

You’re comfortable with this overly broad definition of slavery, but have issues with calling a form of democracy “democracy”?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#299

Post by dvdkon » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:49 PM UTC

philistine wrote: post #294

taylorius wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you (hopefully) know what the Supermarket is up to - as you say, they just want to sell you more stuff. The government on the other hand - who knows what plans they might cook up.

That's incredibly facile. The supermarket can, and will, sell all your data because there's profit in it. Now try to make sense of how you know what they're up to. At least with the government, you have a ton of elected representative who can help you if the government does something dumb with the data.

I know Norway isn't in the EU, but the GDPR prevents (or rather lets users decide on) sales of data like this. Not sure how it would interact with mass collection of data by a government agency, but any such transfers might be exempted by an additional law.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#300

Post by matheusmoreira » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 5:52 PM UTC

WanderPanda wrote: post #293

wiz21c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

At this very moment there are corporations worth trillions of dollars. More money than the worth of many countries combined. The people in charge of these companies command so much capital, they can more or less run the world if they so wish. All they need to do is set policies on loans and the entire world will literally change itself to conform.

Corporations are no stranger to violence. They're no stranger to organized crime dealings and tight relationships with governments. Coca-Cola for example has straight up assassinated union leaders.