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Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

economist.com

491–500 of 530 posts

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#491
I can't talk about level of mass-food distribution in USA, being European living in EU having only visited very few parts of USA for a very little time but in general terms: transports was and are the key to have much, much more, since the model of a self-contained starship able to produce locally 99% of it's crews needs and desire exists, unfortunately, so far, only in the fantasy domain: we made many things around the world but never all in the same place.

However the mass distribution of food have also very nasty side effects: pushing agriculture toward large and specialized enterprises scattered across the globe *apparently* have raised the overall output but in practice have lowered the efficiency and resilience of agriculture. The push toward standard sizes and varieties is equally harmful: we have create a seed monopoly with hybrid varieties *explicitly* made to keep their characteristics just for one generation (one year) tie farmers to the monopoly itself EVEN WITH LAWS making hard to sell different/non-standard varieties/calibers. Similar nasty things have happen for animal farming: artificial insemination done by very few and very large entities have crushed the genetic variability of animals, surely cows produce more milk etc, but are far more fragile and so on.

Long story short: exaggeration in the name of business have create a short-term hyper-abundance and now we are in trouble to keep the food production at sustainable level FOR NOW, not really knowing what to do for the future. We can't right now "coming back to the old school", but we must do our best to annihilate modern mass-distribution as it is because we are already in a mess, and the future is far nightmarish. I do not know how we can evolve, local scale farms might be self-sufficient for low dense areas, but not on scale, so not enough even to nourish the industry we need behind to have all needed gears and tools.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#492
post #32

UK supermarkets are crap, and have got noticeably crapper in recent years. At even large mid-tier supermarkets you will find a paltry range of fruit and veg, and a maeger selection of almost entirely prepackaged meat and fish. I have noticed many things are routinely out of stock and it can be a lottery shopping for a specific recipe. I recently visited Portugal, and in a small city supermarket there was a bakery, me…

My greatest frustration with UK supermarkets is the illusion of choice. You'll find metres of shelving with the same product in different branding / price points. Went looking for Thai Jasmine rice, but the rice section is just 40 variants of Basmati, & one box of Arborio. There's 5 metres of fridges packed with fish but it's all Cod, Haddock and Salmon in various guises.

If you want any ingredient that's remotely off the beaten track (and I'm not talking super exotic stuff, basics herbs like Sage are hard to find) you've got to go Waitrose or specialty shops.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#493
post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Younger generations are filled with self righteous tiresome scolds. I don’t know where we went wrong.

As someone from the younger generation, it's probably linked to hearing about climate and ecology from 4th grade to now. Many people took the message seriously, which leads to questioning a lot what the people before us did. Basically the older generation not taling responsibility, first for climate stuff, and then for raising "self righteous tiresome scolds".

Does find some "really guilty, to blame" solve contemporary issues and foreseeable futures ones?

I'm moderately young (36) and I consider myself an ecologist, not the one who buy the hat but the one who really care, and I fail to see solutions and even ecology in much of the so called "ecological moves"/Green Deal.

Entomophagy to my eyes is sold as ecological, but sound much more a way to industrialize even more the food production chain simply because we can't produce anything good from insects without a full-scale industry behind, while we can all raise chickens nearly everywhere in the world. Industrialization per se is not bad nor good, it might be one AND the other in various proportion, but so far food-production industrialization have created abundance bubbles and deep crisis vanishing most of the initial production stability it have given, so I highly doubt insisting in that direction can be of help at least IN THE ACTUAL TERMS.

I see proposal for fully-automated factory-farms and I've no doubt they can work BUT I doubt they can scale. They might be able to grow some veggies in Island and Chile, i.e. in unfriendly climatic conditions, they might do that with nearly local-only resources at least to sustain the production once the factory is built but the output is still far less than a classic "grandfather's garden" behind the house, in those areas of the world where it can exist witch are not so vast but also not so few... Now IF we push all of that because we think we are doomed and it's time to plan an artificial life in bubbles planning a migration to Mars in a century... Well... Ok, it's clear that such move can be done only by VERY FEW, probably so few that they can't reproduce with healthy children, even with genetic engineering help. If the target is "let us create some small artificial pseudo-paradise bubbles while most will feel the disaster in their own skin and only the most adaptive of them will survive allowing us few to be the new "élite" who holds scientific/industrial knowledge and survivors are just young and strong slaves to exploit... Again I doubt it can't work for more than few generations.

If the target is a mass civilization shift to really adapt as much as possible to climate change... Well, I see veeeery little sustainability in all modern "green" tech innovations.

I'm curious to see other outline-scenarios about the future to just try imaging how can they possibly work, in mere theory at a high sight.

Let's say we can push anyone in modern buildings (who need to be built, BTW) so the civil energy needs goes down much. Industry needed behind? Let's say in my new house (built few years ago with p.v. etc) I can sustain intermittent grid electricity services, I do not need gas to heat/cook. Good. What about my solar panels (made in China), inverters (made in Austria and India), batteries (China, perhaps with South-American or Russian lithium and some others raw materials)? How can be made in the new world? Who will be able to build them? Let's say I also buy an EV so I can go around with my own energy (for just few years, cfr battery lifetime), did the farmer can do the same? Maybe, I'm pretty convinced that agrivoltaic can made us erase tractors needs, but it's just an idea so far AFAIK, did the supply chain can do the same anyway? And so on.

Long story short: IF/when a day we will be able to build Star Trek alike ships/isolated environment that once built can self-repair and work for decades, we adapt to live in them, with no genetic issues due to a low variety of seeds etc well... We will/would have found a solution. But we are probably more than a century behind such tech. I see no really feasible recipe so far in little time and on scale. Not counting the fact that when things start to go bad people tend to be a bit upset so unrest and revolutions and wars happen and they are not exactly ideal to build something new, in the short time span they just consume and destroy and MOST on the from the history have no more plans than the short-term win.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is also how California style cuisine is described.

Easy to say when nice advocados are a dime a dozen. The US has so much better fresh edibles than say Ireland.

"California style cuisine" focuses on local ingredients, if you had a "California style" restaurant in Ireland it should focus on things like beef, grains, cabbage, carrots, etc. but it would be prepared differently.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#496
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither option tastes anything like what it’s supposed to taste like, to me. The process of making concentrate loses most of the aroma, which is then added back using perfumes which are derived from oranges. Because the perfumes are made from oranges, using certain techniques, they do not have to be listed as separate ingredients, and the can will just say “orange” in the ingredient list. One fundamental problem is t…

>Neither option tastes anything like what it’s supposed to taste like, to me. That's because the not from concentrate is mostly bullshit. They store the juice for up to a year and preserve it by deoxygenating the giant storage containers. That destroys most of the flavor and so they add in artificial flavor packs rendering the end product an orange flavored beverage instead of juice. From concentrate is actually bett…

> You lose flavor from the solidification process but the end result is all from the orange.

"All from the orange" is a clever conceit. It's a processed food product. If you get Minute Maid, it incorporates a flavor pack created by Coca-Cola. It's not listed in the ingredients because the flavor pack is made from orange.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still matters what is the standard, even if you can find alternatives. It admittedly may matter more to a traveler who goes through airports and middle class hotels though, than to people living there.

For sure. I just hear the "I went to the US and there was no REAL bread to be found" and I'm always a little confused. Even the local grocer in my fairly poor neighborhood growing up had a section of bread loaves in various styles. I'm sure the selection is worse if you're in a more rural part of the US, but that's probably also towns that maybe never had an actual baker even when they were founded, assuming they wer…

I just think bread is one of these things that are central to each European culture. Germans miss their bread even in France and vice versa.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly grind up a pile of vegetables in the vitamix and drink the result. Prep time is 5 minutes. Cleanup is 1 minute. I'm not really buying the "no time to eat healthy" thing.

The time involved in living healthy is not in the time it actually takes to make a meal (which is trivial, and can easily take less time than the round-trip to a fast food outlet.) The real time it takes is in the time you need to learn a bunch of skills that make that possible. In an ideal world you learnt those skills at your mother's knee, but we are now 3 generations into "fast food" so it's probable that was mis…

Recipe I described. You have to know how to chop an onion and mushrooms. How to break up a lump of ground beef.

That could be "learned" in 1/2 an hour if you don't want nice TV chef uniformity in the veggies.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#499

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

> One parent has to come home after 8 hours working and cook.

Or 10! or 12!

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#500
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Appreciate" is, perhaps, not the right word. Maybe "worry"? Younger generations grew up on a message of climate change and it can be disconcerting to walk into a grocery store and find the entire produce department to be a geography lesson. This from Peru, that from Mexico, the other from Alaska, all flown and trucked in on a cold chain straight from some far-away monoculture farm. If anything I suspect the increase…

Younger generations are filled with self righteous tiresome scolds. I don’t know where we went wrong.

They were raised by self righteous tiresome scolds
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