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How I would start my next startup in Germany without a GmbH (2020)

richventures.com

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Re: How I would start my next startup in Germany without a GmbH (2020)

#11

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

cloogshicer wrote: post #3

Thanks for the post. Reading this made me quite angry - politicians here in Germany always talk out of their asses about improving the situation for startups, but when it comes to removing these ridiculous administrative hurdles, absolutely nothing happens. In Austria, where I live, it's even worse. It's not even possible to start a limited liability company without at least 35k starting capital in the bank.

>In Austria, where I live, it's even worse.

That also explains the terrible tech jobs market both local and remote available to Austrians, even when you compare to some Eastern European companies. The bureocracy and tax system here severely discourages any kind of remote or self employment or starting your own gig.

Plus, AFAIK it's the only EU country I've encountered where non-competes are legal and enforceable without any penalities for the employer. Madness.

I don't know how startups in Austria manage to get anything off the ground.

Re: How I would start my next startup in Germany without a GmbH (2020)

#12

Post by hef19898 »

Aulig wrote: post #7

Great post, fully agree. Also, if you plan on leaving Germany you can save a lot on taxes if you do it before 100k profits/year and as a Personengesellschaft (without limited liability, so no UG/GmbH). Basically because the Wegzugsbesteuerung (moving away tax) only affects limited liability entities and Personengesellschaften are only affected by the Steuerentstrickung, which can be minimized by saying your profits a…

Or keep the GmbH / UG and create a sperarate entity in an other country that has full or partial ownership. Either way, paying some tax law expert, even if expensive is the best advice.

And not having a limited liability entity is actually pretty stupid, for a full catalogue of reasons.

Re: How I would start my next startup in Germany without a GmbH (2020)

#13

Post by mtrovo »

keewee7 wrote: post #9
cloogshicer wrote: post #3

Thanks for the post. Reading this made me quite angry - politicians here in Germany always talk out of their asses about improving the situation for startups, but when it comes to removing these ridiculous administrative hurdles, absolutely nothing happens. In Austria, where I live, it's even worse. It's not even possible to start a limited liability company without at least 35k starting capital in the bank.

As a Danish software engineer I'm puzzled by how much Germany has convinced the rest world that it is some kind of high-tech powerhouse. Outside the old West German legacy giants the country is stagnant.

I mean, it's not as if the bar is that high within the EU, specially that now UK is gone so London is not officially a contestant for the title of tech capital of Europe.

Re: How I would start my next startup in Germany without a GmbH (2020)

#17

Post by mkl95 »

> “In order to start a GmbH in Germany you will need to buy-in. While you can most likely lend the money, it’s a risk you need to keep in mind. If you’re a solo-entrepreneur, that’s a whooping 25.000€ for you.”

That sounds pretty uncompetitive when compared to other EU countries such as Spain and the Netherlands, where it's 3000€ and 0.01€ respectively. In Ireland it's also 25.000€, but corporate taxes are much, much lower.

Re: How I would start my next startup in Germany without a GmbH (2020)

#18

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrrr »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #6

I think this is one of the reasons why Germany doesn't have a startup ecosystem. People who are loosely playing with the idea of running their own tiny company (e.g. as a student side gig, not with the "I'm planning this like a businessperson and here's my plan how to turn it into a unicorn and how to exit" approach) take a look at the system and bureaucracy, and simply give up and forever write off the concept of ru…

As a student sidegig you can easily just found a small businesses for like 35 EUR and do business. There’s also GbRs that can theoretically be formed on a paper towel. Thought, it will probably not be easy to raise money this way.

Re: How I would start my next startup in Germany without a GmbH (2020)

#19

Post by hkgjjgjfjfjfjf »

mkl95 wrote: post #17

> “In order to start a GmbH in Germany you will need to buy-in. While you can most likely lend the money, it’s a risk you need to keep in mind. If you’re a solo-entrepreneur, that’s a whooping 25.000€ for you.” That sounds pretty uncompetitive when compared to other EU countries such as Spain and the Netherlands, where it's 3000€ and 0.01€ respectively. In Ireland it's also 25.000€, but corporate taxes are much, much…

No post body was provided.

Re: How I would start my next startup in Germany without a GmbH (2020)

#20

Post by bestham »

mtrovo wrote: post #13
keewee7 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Danish software engineer I'm puzzled by how much Germany has convinced the rest world that it is some kind of high-tech powerhouse. Outside the old West German legacy giants the country is stagnant.

I mean, it's not as if the bar is that high within the EU, specially that now UK is gone so London is not officially a contestant for the title of tech capital of Europe.

The UK is still in Europe.
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