Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#401

Post by nicoburns » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 9:32 AM UTC

lampshades wrote: post #226

DubiousPusher wrote: post #172

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

Very well said. It doesn't sound like I grew up as rural as you, but I can remember going to small grocery stores growing up that functioned in the same way you mentioned. People around me often had to travel to different cities to find the food they needed (and it's actually going back in that direction due to poverty). I would not be surprised if a large number of people got a good portion of their food from huntin…

You say it’s barely necessary, and yet there’s also an obesity crisis. I feel like unless you’re rich enough to be able to afford restaurant food 7 days a week (so not most people), then the quality of food available without cooking means that it is more necessary than people think.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#402

Post by mytailorisrich » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 9:35 AM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #278

asiachick wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure supermarkets now are better than what you grew up with in Montana but I have the opposite experience. I'm in SF, we supposedly have good produce, farmer's markets, and big supermarkets with lots of selection. But they pale in comparison to what I'm used to from Japan and France. The bread here in SF is horrid and that includes that massively over rated Tartine, not to mention how bad the baked products are a…

I don't think this generalizes, it really depends on where you live in the US. I work in Europe and know many US expats there, so this is something we talk about. The consensus has been that the quality and diversity of fresh foods in the US these days is frequently superior in many categories at the median, though notably worse in others. The paucity of good produce is noticeable everywhere, for example, a fraction…

There is no such thing as "Europe" on this topic. Just the UK and France are worlds apart, for instance.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#403

Post by Broken_Hippo » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 9:35 AM UTC

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #280

DubiousPusher wrote: post #172

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

One of the problems with Americans and food is that we've been conditioned to have sugar in absolutely everything, and the 80s made it worse because of the low-fat fad (they just increased sugar content to maintain mouthfeel). Ask any Gen Xer and they'll regale you with nightmares of the dominance of oat bran in 80s cuisine. On the one hand, you get a muffin. On the other hand, it tastes like cardboard flavored with…

Most people don't eat enough low-cost, high-availability items like cucumbers and spinach, and they don't manage to learn how to do things like make their own bread, which is far superior fresh from the oven than anything you can get from a supermarket bakery.

I don't think that most folks can make their own bread simply because of time constraints. And honestly, we have a long history of folks not making their own bread.

See, I do make bread. Daily. But I also don't have a job. It takes a few hours a day, but that's OK for me. At some times, when I've been poor, I've made bread on weekends, but freezing that bread to eat later isn't quite as lovely. But again, it takes hours and requires a working oven too (I had a toaster oven when I couldn't afford natural gas.

And really, that last bit gives us a view into the past: Kitchens used to be dangerous and a lot of folks didn't have proper ovens if they lived in cities. Folks have been buying bread from the baker for... um... centuries. And it was better for everyone because it kept some of the fire risk contained. Plus the bakers could make lots with less fuel than individual folks could do, which is honestly even a bonus now.

I'm not sure we are really losing stuff by not making bread - even if I make it and enjoy the fresh bread. Anyone can look it up online if they really want to.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#404

Post by gniv » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 9:47 AM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #278

asiachick wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure supermarkets now are better than what you grew up with in Montana but I have the opposite experience. I'm in SF, we supposedly have good produce, farmer's markets, and big supermarkets with lots of selection. But they pale in comparison to what I'm used to from Japan and France. The bread here in SF is horrid and that includes that massively over rated Tartine, not to mention how bad the baked products are a…

I don't think this generalizes, it really depends on where you live in the US. I work in Europe and know many US expats there, so this is something we talk about. The consensus has been that the quality and diversity of fresh foods in the US these days is frequently superior in many categories at the median, though notably worse in others. The paucity of good produce is noticeable everywhere, for example, a fraction…

> The bread is indistinguishable for the most part.

Sorry for the bluntness, but you lost me at this part. I lived in the US for a long time and traveled to Europe often. I could never get bread as good in US, even at the new fancy bakeries that keep popping up. The one-euro baguette (or tradition) from any random boulangerie is way better that any four-dollar baguette I found in the US. Is it the water, the flour, the technique? I think I've seen this question being asked, but not sure there is a good answer.

Anyway, I am now in France and not much has changed. Food (stuff that you find easily in a supermarket or corner shop) is still way better than similar stuff in US. And costwise, compared to the part of the US where we lived (northern NJ) almost everything is cheaper.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#405

Post by cycomanic » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 9:49 AM UTC

asiachick wrote: post #310

jandrewrogers wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this generalizes, it really depends on where you live in the US. I work in Europe and know many US expats there, so this is something we talk about. The consensus has been that the quality and diversity of fresh foods in the US these days is frequently superior in many categories at the median, though notably worse in others. The paucity of good produce is noticeable everywhere, for example, a fraction…

You're right, I forgot about the cheese shops, because in France I wouldn't have to go out of my way to find good cheese. But, "Bread is indistinguishable"? WAT? Really? I guess we have different tastes. Other than some sourdough there is no bread I've had that I like in SF. That definitely varies by country in Europe. Hard to find good bread in Germany and some of those northern countries have their interesting brea…

> Hard to find good bread in Germany and some of those northern countries have their interesting breads that are an acquired taste I have yet to acquire.

As others have said that's the most hilarious claim I've read in a long time. Unless you like "toast bread", i.e. white, sliced bread in plastic bags that typically taste like card board, Germany is probably the place with the widest variety of bread types and with the people who feel the most strongly about bread. Also if you search for high quality bread in any other country, you almost always find that the bakery is run by some German immigrant (my experience in NZ, OZ, Sweden).

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#406

Post by jagger27 » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 10:02 AM UTC

baisq wrote: post #364

cbhl wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Appreciate" is, perhaps, not the right word. Maybe "worry"? Younger generations grew up on a message of climate change and it can be disconcerting to walk into a grocery store and find the entire produce department to be a geography lesson. This from Peru, that from Mexico, the other from Alaska, all flown and trucked in on a cold chain straight from some far-away monoculture farm. If anything I suspect the increase…

There are some who are specialised in finding any possible excuse to bring up global warming in every thread. Can't you see that the majority of people don't care? Leave us alone already.

Yep we’re fucked.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#407

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 10:03 AM UTC

rightbyte wrote: post #357

klodolph wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the sentiment about frozen food being superior is on the mark although the exact argument isn’t correct. Frozen produce is harvested at peak, frozen nearby, and then transported. The texture suffers, but in other respects this is far superior to the “fresh” produce you get, which has to survive transportation at room temperature. Whether you would prefer frozen depends on what you are getting and how you prepare…

> far superior to the “fresh” produce you get, which has to survive transportation at room temperature Depends on the distance to transport and water content though. I have never eaten frozen pinneapple, but I guess it would be awful?

I’d expect frozen pineapple to be quite good even after thawing. It has a lot of long fiber for structure that I’d expect would survive.

Frozen and thawed watermelon (and other similar melons) would likely be dreadful.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#408

Post by Leherenn » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

sealaska wrote: post #386

lettergram wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family growing up and my family now; we make it an absolute must to eat every dinner together. We also tend to invite people over. It’s honestly the most important thing you can do as a parent. Let’s you know about your kids lives, share in the ritual, and generally bond.

Do you, or will you, allow your children to participate in extracurricular activities? Or is eating every dinner together less of an absolute priority as you claim? Your comment makes it sound like you may have some. I ask because most of the dinners I missed growing up were due to sports.

How late are the extracurricular activities? I'm not American, but at home we would just eat all together after, e.g. around 9 p.m. and if they were later in the evening, we would just eat a bit earlier, like 7.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#409

Post by bowsamic » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 10:08 AM UTC

dgellow wrote: post #361

bowsamic wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK supermarkets are far better in terms of fruit and veg selection than anything we have here in Germany. It can be much worse trust me. UK is also way cheaper

What German supermarket are you comparing too? Rewe, Edeka, and Real have a very wide offering of fruits and vegetables. Are you comparing to discounters? In my experience Germany has the best supermarkets I’ve ever encountered, with ridiculously aggressive prices.

Rewe and EDEKA are extremely expensive compared to UK supermarkets

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#410

Post by carom » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 10:09 AM UTC

mgraczyk wrote: post #192

It would be hard for me to believe any generalizations about grocery stores in the US. In San Francisco where I live, there are ~5 grocery stores within walking distance that span an order of magnitude in price and markup. Some items are only available at the higher end stores, and items that overlap are sold for up to 10x the price at the smaller, more expensive stores. For example I can get a pint of heavy cream fo…

I don't see any 15 dollar heavy cream at Whole Foods via the Amazon app. The 365 brand is 4 dollars. Highest I see is 6 dollars. This is in Los Angeles. Changed my zip to 94105 which is the most expensive zip in SF and I still don't see 15 dollar heavy cream.