Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#291

Post by nmfisher » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:44 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #188

Australia has the best supermarkets in the world, hands down. Why? Because we grow and produce almost all of our fresh produce, dairy, meat, and seafood. There are some exceptions for seasonal things, but the Australian climate allows for almost everything we eat to be grown here. The solution to this problem in the US and the UK is less globalism, not more.

I can't tell if you're joking or not, because the quality of fresh fruit, vegetables, meat and poultry at Australian supermarkets is incredibly mediocre (and even that's being generous).

I'd rank Australia near-bottom of the dozen or so countries I've lived in/visited when it comes to supermarket quality[0]. Homogenized, bland food pumped full of water, optimized for profitability, shelf-life and appearance rather than nutrition or flavour.

[0] to be fair, the USA is even worse.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#292

Post by ge96 » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:45 AM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #99

Farmer's markets are the way to go for produce if you have farms in your area. Some are overpriced and upscale, some are cheaper than your local chain grocery store. You can also buy grains/beans in bulk at lower prices, often direct from farmer's coops, and have it shipped to your door. Get a pressure cooker for beans, a rice cooker, save on the gas prices as they're electric, and use an induction electric stove. If…

> However, you have to learn to cook.

I cook the same meal almost everyday. I have precooked a pot of white rice (trying to use brown) that sits in the fridge. I start cooking a chicken quarter or two and then microwave some mixed frozen vegetables (corn, green beans, carrots). Then I put some of the rice on top of that, microwave again, then the chicken is done (add some seasoning) and eat with salt. I listen to a podcast while cooking.

Otherwise I eat junk food (BK/TB/McDs or ramen shop). I do have a binge eating problem (bored or way to fight brain dead). But I can also fast eg. eat a meal a day for weeks to drop 10s of lbs. It's not easy to keep it consistent. Also I am more productive if I don't eat the entire day (except caffeine/water), eating induces tiredness.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#293

Post by jessaustin » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:45 AM UTC

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #280

DubiousPusher wrote: post #172

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

One of the problems with Americans and food is that we've been conditioned to have sugar in absolutely everything, and the 80s made it worse because of the low-fat fad (they just increased sugar content to maintain mouthfeel). Ask any Gen Xer and they'll regale you with nightmares of the dominance of oat bran in 80s cuisine. On the one hand, you get a muffin. On the other hand, it tastes like cardboard flavored with…

The store brands taste like a freaking dessert topping comparatively.

True!

...convinced into believing that everything needs to be cooked from scratch and that any meal that involves a kit or a flavor packet is inferior.

These kits and flavor packets also come from the store, and also contain unnecessary ingredients. Family members from other generations insist on using envelopes of powder for everything, and they eat more poorly as a result. They need the powder to make gravy, while we gen-Xers whip that up from fat, flour, and any flavorful liquid. Watch Alton Brown for ten minutes, and eat better for the rest of your life.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#294

Post by wikibob » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:46 AM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #278

asiachick wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure supermarkets now are better than what you grew up with in Montana but I have the opposite experience. I'm in SF, we supposedly have good produce, farmer's markets, and big supermarkets with lots of selection. But they pale in comparison to what I'm used to from Japan and France. The bread here in SF is horrid and that includes that massively over rated Tartine, not to mention how bad the baked products are a…

I don't think this generalizes, it really depends on where you live in the US. I work in Europe and know many US expats there, so this is something we talk about. The consensus has been that the quality and diversity of fresh foods in the US these days is frequently superior in many categories at the median, though notably worse in others. The paucity of good produce is noticeable everywhere, for example, a fraction…

Strongly strongly disagree.

The average produce, meat, cured meat, and seafood in the western EU is vastly superior to the average available in the USA.

Bread is especially disgusting in the US compared to EU.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#295

Post by bruce511 » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:46 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #273

JJMcJ wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fast with few ingredients Slice an onion. Slice mushrooms. Fry up with ground beef. Add a little water or soup stock or bone broth. Let simmer for a minute. Quick meal. Just one of a million examples for quick recipes that take minimal skill. You can even run the veggies through a chopper or food processor.

I regularly grind up a pile of vegetables in the vitamix and drink the result. Prep time is 5 minutes. Cleanup is 1 minute. I'm not really buying the "no time to eat healthy" thing.

The time involved in living healthy is not in the time it actually takes to make a meal (which is trivial, and can easily take less time than the round-trip to a fast food outlet.)

The real time it takes is in the time you need to learn a bunch of skills that make that possible. In an ideal world you learnt those skills at your mother's knee, but we are now 3 generations into "fast food" so it's probable that was missed.

It takes time, and effort, to regain those basics. From something as trivial as boiling water, to using a knife, to "knowing" how long things cook for. Then experience as to what ingredients go together (tomatoes love Basil, chocolate doesn't like garlic).

A skilled person can make a lovely pasta dish in minutes, an unskilled person has literally no idea.

My mother learnt to cook with minimal information (recipe books and magazines), my children can get a master-class in anything on YouTube.

We live in an age where we have access to any knowledge we want, and yet seem to be incapable of doing anything for ourselves.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#296

Post by NickNameNick » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:47 AM UTC

teh_klev wrote: post #246

sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of it is that UK standards are lower when it comes to food, yes. I know this might be offensive, but I think there's some truth to it. The reason I think there's truth to it is that it works in the opposite direction too. Standards for food are higher in Italy than in Portugal and guess what? Their grocery stores are better than the Portuguese ones. Comparing meat specifically in Portugal vs UK, it's gen…

> I think part of it is that UK standards are lower when it comes to food This is patent nonsense. Current UK food standards for the moment are aligned with EU standards despite Brexit. > Comparing meat specifically in Portugal vs UK, it's generally awful in the UK, but I've never heard anyone there complaining about it. Therefore, the standards must be lower, even if by simple virtue of people not knowing any better…

I think they mean personal expectations, not safety or technical standards.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#297

Post by Thorrez » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:47 AM UTC

wonderbore wrote: post #216

Hellion wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why fuck raisins? Earnest question, I always just assumed taking a lot of the moisture out of a grape was bad enough for flavor

I think people generally dislike them because they're often the odd thing in whatever dish (and because they're easily confused as chocolate chips), due to consistency and density. If you add raisins to a salad for example they'll just collect at the bottom; Hope you like finishing your salad with a spoonful of dried fruit covered in ranch dressing.

Raisins in a salad with ranch dressing? That sounds bad. I would expect them more with sweet dressing, or maybe something more vinegary.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#298

Post by jandrewrogers » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:49 AM UTC

hedora wrote: post #242

So, the article claims the average price for a day of nutritious food in the US is $3. How is that possible? Is anyone here close to spending $21/week for all the food they eat (ignoring luxury items, etc)? That hasn't been possible for me for at least 20 years, and when travelling to cheaper places (pre covid), it doesn't seem possible there either. Where are these average food prices?

I could easily live on that much per day if I chose to, cooking simple (and delicious) country food from my childhood, made from fresh ingredients. Or being a bit selective about the partially prepared food I buy. That's paying big city grocery prices. Anything else is more an unwillingness to cook or lack of imagination.

To put it another way, I am perplexed by the idea that it needs to cost much more than $3/day to feed yourself healthy food in the US, whether or not you have that as your budget. I'm not sure how it wouldn't be obvious that this is eminently achievable without sacrificing a good eating experience. A bit less meat, a little more legumes, and you're done.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#299

Post by jessaustin » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:50 AM UTC

sydthrowaway wrote: post #251

mgraczyk wrote: post #192

It would be hard for me to believe any generalizations about grocery stores in the US. In San Francisco where I live, there are ~5 grocery stores within walking distance that span an order of magnitude in price and markup. Some items are only available at the higher end stores, and items that overlap are sold for up to 10x the price at the smaller, more expensive stores. For example I can get a pint of heavy cream fo…

You are clearly ultra-wealthy, so don’t speak for the majority of Americans

Even paupers deserve some cream in their diet.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#300

Post by rr808 » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:55 AM UTC

fredley wrote: post #32

UK supermarkets are crap, and have got noticeably crapper in recent years. At even large mid-tier supermarkets you will find a paltry range of fruit and veg, and a maeger selection of almost entirely prepackaged meat and fish. I have noticed many things are routinely out of stock and it can be a lottery shopping for a specific recipe. I recently visited Portugal, and in a small city supermarket there was a bakery, me…

Portugal is a difficult comparison because it has a great climate and very low wages. Compared to Northern France, Netherlands, Scandanavia etc British supermarkets are pretty decent.