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The 99 percent

economist.com

61–70 of 162 posts

Re: The 99 percent

#61
post #2

Five points for the OWS guys. 1. Transparency. We need to see where every dollar of the US federal gov't is spent. It needs to be on the internet, and it needs to be easily accessable. An exception can be made for classified spending in specific, but not so categorically (IE we spend X on classified stuff). Additionally, just like there is a Surgeon's General Warning on cigarette packages, there needs to be a link on…

Regarding 3, why do you want to raise the bid/ask spread to $0.10? Regarding 4, specifically "to realize losses in the US and gains in a foreign country", how do you propose companies avoid this situation? Should they deliberately lose money overseas as well? What would this accomplish?

to answer 3. I don't want to raise the bid/ask spread. Only that there is a tally of the number of instruments you traded and the number of times. and you pay $.10 for trades*times.

to answer 4. The point of this is to stop companies from making subsidiaries in another country to realize gains, and then wait for a tax holiday for repatriation.

Re: The 99 percent

#62
The number missing from all these articles is how much taxable income is generated from the activities of the top 1% (including business tax, employment tax, sales tax from purchases, etc).

Re: The 99 percent

#63
post #54
post #2

Five points for the OWS guys. 1. Transparency. We need to see where every dollar of the US federal gov't is spent. It needs to be on the internet, and it needs to be easily accessable. An exception can be made for classified spending in specific, but not so categorically (IE we spend X on classified stuff). Additionally, just like there is a Surgeon's General Warning on cigarette packages, there needs to be a link on…

First, You can read this graph in many ways, including that everyone has become more wealthy in a short period of time. Second, all of guilmarin's points: 1) Transparency - Only politicians would disagree with this. Good idea. 2) As other readers pointed out, this is a red herring, and would not solve anything. 3) This has the effect of killing the messenger, and there is a lot of evidence that derivatives are extrem…

I disagree with your second point. I think that making banks which do more than lending money to businesses/individuals into partnerships will do a lot of good. They won't stiff the US tax-payer with the bill by saying that they are too big to fail and that they risked US tax-payer deposits, as is the case of BofA. If a partnership wants to take big risks that's their decision. I'm suggesting to remove the moral hazard, by using the threat of financial system collapse as a stick to get the US gov't to foot the risk bill. 3. I do not say kill derivatives, you read that wrong. I'm more concerned with HFT. That is trades that are decided on by computers and executed in the single digit milliseconds, contribute to the hollowing out of buildings downtown for data-centers, etc. 4. removing the corporate tax is probably too much of a shock to the system, I think aligning it with the personal tax, eliminating loopholes in both, and lowering both is a much better idea. 5. I think that about 20 years is a long enough time to build relationships and get things that you want done. I think that there is cultural and idea turnover each generation that needs to be reflected in the bodies that represent it. Cleaning out the old gives way to the new and the like. I also think that since we limit terms for Presidents that we should do the same in other places. I think that long-standing senators can be every bit as much a tyrant as a permanent president, albeit on a lesser scale.

Re: The 99 percent

#64
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instituting #3 will lower liquidity. I think the trade-off is worth it. This is a topic where the critics, who argue in favor of the status quo are at an advantage, because the realities of HFT are not easily discernable to the layman, and require a much deeper understanding of the entire modern financial ecosystem. Suffice to say, there were/are pros and cons to having a specialist.

"Suffice to say, there were/are pros and cons to having a specialist." Let's not go there. Specialists were accused of favoritism: filling orders that certain traders submitted and ignoring requests from other traders. More generally, the advancements, both in technology and in pricing, actually helped everyone. SOES (small order entry system) helped smaller traders to quickly trade. Decimalization really helped redu…

yes and sophisticated HFT systems screw large funds from moving into and out of positions with relative ease/fairness. This cuts both ways, thus pros and cons. At least with a specialist, everyone was relatively even in that regard. Now, measuring the distance to the server in micro-seconds of fiberoptic wires, I can literally create an unfair system by owning the closest supercomputer. I disagree with your point and think that my 'compromise' tax is pretty damn fair considering. Also, I'm not arguing about the merits of digitizing the exchanges, I'm arguing that there was a cost to removing the specialists, it's obvious now, and we should fix it. The specialists were bad in some cases, enough to get people to change, but the system is just as corrupt now as it was then, just differently.

Re: The 99 percent

#65
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really torn on #5. My pragmatic side says "hell yes", due to the very human nature law of those that most want to govern are the ones we least want doing it. But... my rights side says all that is doing is taking away my right to vote for whom I want.

I'd change it to disallow consecutive terms --yet as many terms so long as not consecutive

Then you end up with a situation like they have in Russia:

  1999-2000:
    Prime Minister: Putin
  2000-2008:
    President: Putin
  2008-2012:
    Prime Minister: Putin
  2012-2016 (anticipated):
    President: Putin

Re: The 99 percent

#66
post #2

Five points for the OWS guys. 1. Transparency. We need to see where every dollar of the US federal gov't is spent. It needs to be on the internet, and it needs to be easily accessable. An exception can be made for classified spending in specific, but not so categorically (IE we spend X on classified stuff). Additionally, just like there is a Surgeon's General Warning on cigarette packages, there needs to be a link on…

2. Change that to "limit leverage, everywhere".

30-1 and up leverage never has been and never will be safe, necessary, or a good idea. Not for Fannie and Freddie, not for investment banks, not for Citi and Wamu, not for LTCM, not for the Euro banks, not for individual mortgage borrowers.

Never, for anyone, ever, a good idea. Far, far, far more destabilizing than something like HFT.

1 rule and you can pretty much put a cap on how badly things can get blown up. Limit everyone everywhere to 10-1 leverage.

We can live with a slightly lower, more consistent growth rate.

Re: The 99 percent

#67
Here's why the rich get richer: because the 99% produce too damn much.

Consumerism worked for a while to keep things even, but we've reached a plateau. People can only buy so much crap. But we're more productive now than ever [1].

So where does all that extra money go? The people at the top take it. CEOs don't give their employees raises, and pocket the rest. Bankers play games with your excess money you've dumped into the market and "lose" it. etc.

No-one's missed that extra money until now, because there's always been enough work to go around. Now there's not. Maybe people aren't buying because their "confidence" is shaken. Maybe the Chinese are "taking our jobs". Maybe people don't need more crap.

Guess what, it doesn't matter. Everyone's stuck on debating why there's not enough work to go around. But really, the solution's simple.

Everyone should do less work.

The only way to simultaneously (a) reduce the income gap, (b) lower unemployment, and (c) not return to wasteful excessive consumerism is to shorten the work week and raise the minimum wage.

Those at the top will be forced to pay more per hour worked due to decrease in supply. This will fix the income gap.

The unemployed will suddenly find work, now that more workers are required to perform the same amount of work.

And no-one needs to find any arcane means of "increasing consumer confidence".

I propose a mandatory maximum of 35-hour non-overtime weeks, coupled with a 20% (or greater) increase in minimum wage. Necessarily will likely be a short-term (5-year or less) exemption from these policies for small business owners (defined as those whose executives take home in salary + bonuses less than some threshold, say $200k).

There once came a day when humans were productive enough that a two-day weekend was warranted. As we continue our march down the road of automation, it is only natural that we give ourselves more time to enjoy the fruits of our labors, and not devote our time to serve those more fortunate than us.

[1] http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/USARGDPH

Re: The 99 percent

#68

Here's why the rich get richer: because the 99% produce too damn much. Consumerism worked for a while to keep things even, but we've reached a plateau. People can only buy so much crap. But we're more productive now than ever [1]. So where does all that extra money go? The people at the top take it. CEOs don't give their employees raises, and pocket the rest. Bankers play games with your excess money you've dumped in…

Empirical evidence suggest a reduction of work hours will NOT increase employment. See when France went from 39 hour workweeks to 35. http://www.cepr.org/meets/wkcn/9/973/papers/estevao_sa.pdf

As a founder, this seems intuitively obvious. I have problems finding the correct people. There simply aren't enough skilled people who can do work (that is where the overhead of managing them + their cost I also completely disagree that people can buy so much stuff. Sure, physical items, yes. But 77% of the US economy is services.

From a personal perspective, I don't need more trinkets. But if I had the money, I'd never do my own laundry, shopping, driving, etc. -- that is I would spend a lot of money to gain time. Whether that time goes toward pleasure or working harder, it doesn't matter -- society still wins.

Re: The 99 percent

#69

Here's why the rich get richer: because the 99% produce too damn much. Consumerism worked for a while to keep things even, but we've reached a plateau. People can only buy so much crap. But we're more productive now than ever [1]. So where does all that extra money go? The people at the top take it. CEOs don't give their employees raises, and pocket the rest. Bankers play games with your excess money you've dumped in…

Hoo boy are you wrong.

You are so, so wrong.

I was hoping you were being ironic, but apparently you're serious.

Raising minimum wage and cutting working hours will drop productivity like a stone. You're effectively saying that all workers are equal, and interchangeable. You want to forcibly stop the more productive ones from working, so that their tasks and livelihoods can be given to others.

In the case of a software company you're introducing the twin evils of bad hires and oversized teams. For what? An inferior product produced at a higher price.

Dropping productivity means a drop in living standards for everyone, not just the rich people.

The reason people are out of work is because too many people are paying back too much debt, and that equates to negative savings.

Minimum wages increase unemployment because they set a price floor above the clearing price for the going price of a worker. Now, that's not an argument for getting rid of minimum wages, but you can't argue against the reality of what they do.

The solution is to continue paying back debt, and learn the lesson not to borrow so much next time around. Yes, that sucks, but hard lessons seldom have pleasant consequences.

If you want to stop a lot of wealth accumulating at the top end of the pyramid, by all means break up banking cartels and break the ties between legislators and big business, you won't get many arguments from most people. But fairyland schemes to force people to pay more than wages are worth, and force people to work less hours than they want? Hello, central planning. Hello, centralised control. The only way for this to work is to put the needs of the state above the needs of the individual. Which must, by definition, mean less individual freedom and more state control. What are you going to do with someone who works more than 35 hours? Lock them up at the point of a gun?

"Wasteful excessive consumerism" is an entirely relative proposition. One persons waste is another satisfactory standard of living. To impose an arbitary living standard on someone is to completely control their lives.

You're asking everyone to do less work. Less work by definition means less production, and less production means a lower living standard. And guess where the bulk of that lower living standard will fall - that's right, you can bet your peasant clothes it won't be on the 1%.

To conclude : you're effectively asking for centralised control of peoples wages, centralised control of how much a person can work, and centralised and arbitary division of what is small, medium and large business for the purposes of handing out favors, subsidies and handouts. Eventually businesses will start to fail and so will seek more handouts, bailouts, concessions or are nationalised because they are vital to society (eg mining, energy, farming).

You've effectively described a blend of National Socialism and Stalinism. And we know that both eventually lead to mass murder and misery of millions. This experiment has been tried before, it ends badly for all involved.

I hope you're young and still learning, because if you're of any reasonable age, you should know better by now.

Re: The 99 percent

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot replace a corporate tax with a personal tax, all persons will simply become corporations.

When people bring up this argument, I feel like I'm screaming in a room full of people and everyone is ignoring me. You cannot make it easy for people and corporations to be interchangeable and then have differing tax rates for each. They MUST have the SAME rate. eg. I 'own' all my rental properties through LLCs which are themselves 'owned' by a corporation of which I am the sole benefactor. Travel? expensed. Living…

You're right, of course.

The top marginal tax rate and corporate tax rate should be equalised.

That way there is no tax benefit to putting revenue through corporations or individually.

Yes, the tax offices can catch abuses like this, but it would be much simpler if there was no tax advantage to doing it one way or the other.

The amount of tax accountants and lawyers that do no productive work because they are moving stuff around in entities makes me want to cry. It's a giant churning game that does nobody any good. The govt doesn't get the money, because they can always be outsmarted. The armies of people doing the outsmarting don't contribute to society.

Just equalise the top tax rates for individual and corporations and loopholes disappear by the bucket load.

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