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What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

latimes.com

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Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#461

Post by derriz »

tompccs wrote: post #411
occz wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that this is relevant at all in the context of this discussion - electric cooking methods - particularly induction - are superior to gas in essentially every way, shape or form - barring the production of wok hei, which is why the article stresses that so much, while conveniently leaving out all the massive downsides of gas stoves. Gas stoves are also generally used by gas companies to get gas lines dra…

Everything you have written is wrong. Gas is very efficient. If you have the choice of burning gas at a power station (which is how a lot of electricity is generated now a days) and piping it directly into people's homes for the end goal of generating heat, piping wins every time. The inefficiencies of converting gas to electricity and transporting that electricity are significant and well known. Additionally, I don'…

Burning gas on a stove to heat food is about 40% efficient. Induction is about 85% efficient. Modern CCGT is about 60% efficient. So converting the energy contained in natural gas into electricity in a large CCGT plant and then cooking with the electricity is more efficient than piping the gas to a home and burning it there.

More importantly for me is that, you don't pollute your breathing air with the byproducts of combusting gas indoors in your home - particular nitrous oxides and fine particulates.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#462

Post by function_seven »

hnov wrote: post #366
chimeracoder wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How's ripping out and replacing existing infrastructure going to reverse climate change? Not to mention that CA is about to have a lot of electricity shortages that will likely necessitate the burning of gas to generate it. Burning gas at a power plant to generate electricity is still much more efficient than burning gas at home generate heat for cooking.

You could be running gas through fuel cells if you want, still not as efficient as amortizing existing infrastructure. This reminds of the EV debacle, you should be buying a used Prius or walking places if you care about the environment, everything else is just posturing.

The person you're buying that used Prius from, what are they buying?

Or: When you purchase that EV, what are you doing with your previous car?

2 different perspectives, both require new stock to enter the market. That new stock should be EV.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#463

Post by guerrilla »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #425
guerrilla wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would argue that corporations have zero carbon footprint and consumers have 100% of the carbon footprint. Nope, because they have no control over the products that are available, how they are produced and most likely cannot afford to pay more. > Consumers have 100% of the power. No, 0%. They have _NO_ vote on how industry does what it does. Industry is not a democracy. They cannot just not buy food and electricit…

>No, 0%. They have _NO_ vote on how industry does what it does. Industry is not a democracy. They cannot just not buy food and electricity. That's stupid. They have to buy the things they can afford. The working class doesn't just have extra cash laying around, they buy what they can afford.. There are options to buy low carbon, and nobody does. People can vote with their wallets or they can vote at the ballot box. T…

> There are options to buy low carbon, and nobody does. People can vote with their wallets or they can vote at the ballot box. They will pay the increased cost either way.

I already addressed this twice, but let's do it a third time. People don't "vote" with their wallets. That's nonsense and not democracy because the "votes" aren't distributed remotely equally. Most people don't have margins to make these choices easily, as I already said... and are also being fed manipulative advertisements and propaganda, as I already said.

> I think you are in error if you think that somehow making the change with regulations means the cost wont be passed to consumers.

Nope.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#464

Post by marvin »

dlisboa wrote: post #307
pao wrote: post #288

Seems like a lot of the interest in these bans is coming from new research like this [Stanford study]( https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/27/rethinking-cooking-gas/ ) showing gas stoves emit more methane than previously thought. They say all residential stoves in the US emit GHG equivalent to 500,000 cars. There are 276 million cars in the US. So, this problem is about 1/500 of the car problem. If you eliminated all s…

This relates to a difficult topic, which is: should modern civilization be 100% carbon neutral? Some things are inherently difficult to make electric, yet we need them to have what we'd call a "modern civilization". Planes are the biggest one: there is a drive to use more trains instead of planes, but should we give that up? It is definitely a step backwards in civilization, as large parts of the world are now imposs…

Civilization can and must be climate gas neutral. Can be accomplished through massive build-out of geological-time CO2 sequestering, financed with global taxes on greenhouse gas emissions and international agreements to the same effect.

End-state will still have lots of economic processes that require releasing greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, even new or novel ones. But these will be offset by the sequestering paid by their taxation.

Taxes will shift greenhouse gas emissions to no-emission alternatives where that's practical and desirable, probably meaning most of them in the end.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#465

Post by throwaway743 »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #275

A large reason electric (restive and induction) are seen as inferior to gas is that portable units are limited to 120v/15a (few are 20a) so the total possible power is technically less than a gas stove; 2800w effective. However, gas stoves are very inefficient so in reality it's not a huge problem and 240v electric stoves could even be hotter (~4000w) than a gas stove. > Xie estimates that he pays around $500 to $700…

Not a chef, but I cook nearly every meal, whether home or at my SO's. A gas stove is a world of difference compared to cooking with an electric one.

One major pain point is that the number settings on electric barely provide insight as to what level of heat you're cooking with, and there seems to be a lack of consistency between one electric stove to another. Whereas with gas, you can just eye the flames and know what you're dealing with without resorting to the knob settings, regardless of which stove you're using.

Another thing that comes to mind is that with a gas burner the pot/pan is above an open flame, so if you need to go from high to low heat, you can do that in an instant. With electric, the pot/pan is resting on a heated surface that gradually cools down and can really ruin whatever's cooking.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#466

Post by eric-hu »

brewdad wrote: post #317
eric-hu wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re off in your analogy. Parent comment is closer to the 0-60 time because of the responsiveness, and you’re referring to time to move a 1000 lbs mass to 60. When I see “responsive” in terms of cooking and gas, I think of wok cooking (mentioned in the article too) where 100k BTUs are needed for a few seconds at a time to combust atomized oil droplets flipped over the edge of the wok. Combusting that oil pr…

Is it even legal to install 100k BTU burner in a residential application? I have a reasonably nice cooktop and the total BTUs of all burners is significantly less than 100k.

This thread is on an article about how removing gas stoves affects Chinese and Korean restaurants.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#467

Post by BeetleB »

MiddleEndian wrote: post #388
BeetleB wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have statistics on people's preferences? Anecdotes: I've yet to live in an apartment/house that actually had a gas stove. No one I know made gas a criterion when house/apartment hunting. They use whatever the place has. When leaving a place with a gas stove, none of them cared if the new place would be electric or gas. On the flip side, I know quite a few people that exclude places with gas stoves when hunting…

My preference for electric (although not a dealbreaker, my condo has a gas stove) is solely because they're so much easier to clean. Having an entirely flat stovetop is very relaxing.

> Having an entirely flat stovetop is very relaxing.

That sounds like an induction stovetop (which is electric). Those are nice and becoming more common, but they cost more. The majority of electric stove top ranges are like this:

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/corroded-kitchen-electric-...

Not exactly flat.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#468

Post by MushyRoom »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #453
DocG wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a professional cook. I miss gas stove over the induction because: 1. I have visual indicatation on how hot it is. The numbers is just not so good indicator. 2. I miss trashing pans around, specially when managin multiple things at once. Glass induction would not be able to withstand it. So suddenly I have to be gentle with machinery. 3. God forbid I spill something in the middle of cooking on induction. Sudde…

> God forbid I spill something in the middle of cooking on induction. Suddenly I have to try to cleanup a hot glass and manage the whole mess. I think you’re overestimating how hot induction stoves get, the element itself doesn’t heat up at all. When you have a significant spill on a gas stove, it can put the flame out partially or entirely, which is much more of a challenge than wiping off an induction element.

Yeah what is 3. This smells like never used induction before.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#469

Post by outworlder »

throwaway743 wrote: post #465
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #275

A large reason electric (restive and induction) are seen as inferior to gas is that portable units are limited to 120v/15a (few are 20a) so the total possible power is technically less than a gas stove; 2800w effective. However, gas stoves are very inefficient so in reality it's not a huge problem and 240v electric stoves could even be hotter (~4000w) than a gas stove. > Xie estimates that he pays around $500 to $700…

Not a chef, but I cook nearly every meal, whether home or at my SO's. A gas stove is a world of difference compared to cooking with an electric one. One major pain point is that the number settings on electric barely provide insight as to what level of heat you're cooking with, and there seems to be a lack of consistency between one electric stove to another. Whereas with gas, you can just eye the flames and know wha…

> With electric, the pot/pan is resting on a heated surface that gradually cools down and can really ruin whatever's cooking.

Sounds like you need to try an induction cooktop?

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#470

Post by outworlder »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #453
DocG wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a professional cook. I miss gas stove over the induction because: 1. I have visual indicatation on how hot it is. The numbers is just not so good indicator. 2. I miss trashing pans around, specially when managin multiple things at once. Glass induction would not be able to withstand it. So suddenly I have to be gentle with machinery. 3. God forbid I spill something in the middle of cooking on induction. Sudde…

> God forbid I spill something in the middle of cooking on induction. Suddenly I have to try to cleanup a hot glass and manage the whole mess. I think you’re overestimating how hot induction stoves get, the element itself doesn’t heat up at all. When you have a significant spill on a gas stove, it can put the flame out partially or entirely, which is much more of a challenge than wiping off an induction element.

Sounds like they have used a normal (resistive) electric cooktop, not an induction cooktop, and are confounding the two.
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