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Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

tedgioia.substack.com

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Re: Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

#31

Post by spread_love »

ushakov wrote: post #27

if you want to learn more about how music business works for artists, here’s a famous 1993 piece “The Problem with Music” https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-problem-with-music

This article mentions why this model (and your article) is quickly becoming outdated:

> record labels who sign TikTok stars initially demanded complete ownership of all the master recordings, and tried to keep 85% of future revenues. [Musicians] wouldn’t even collect the paltry 15% until they paid off their advance.

> but TikTok influencers now have so many labels chasing after them, they can play them off against each other [...] labels are now offering a 50/50 sharing arrangement, while also agreeing to return ownership of the masters to the artists at some later date

Re: Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

#33

Post by TAKEMYMONEY »

ericwaller wrote: post #20
latchkey wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competitor to what, Live Nation? It is a wide range of different businesses. There is nothing to compete with since you're competing with everything. Any time something infringes on one of their areas, they just buy it or put it out of business. Them being a global company makes it impossible to even get started. Case in point, check out Insomniac... Insomniac produces some of the most innovative, immersive music fes…

For anyone who wants to take a crack at building a competitor on the ticketing side: https://seatgeek.com/jobs

please make a "We're hiring!" submission instead of hijacking conversation to shill for the poor man's StubHub

(smart move bailing on Billy Beane’s SPAC btw)

Re: Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

#34

Post by soneca »

AlbertCory wrote: post #14

When I read this, I was trying to map "record labels" and "music" onto "big 5 publishers" and "books." The Big 5 are not quite there yet, but you can almost feel it gestating in the minds of those executives: "publish your book yourself, and if it's a hit, then we'll reprint it and do your next one." In the other article by Ted Gioia (the talk with Rick Beato), Ted said, back in the old days, half the people in the r…

I agree a lot with that. I see advice from famous writers saying how you need to do your own marketing even if published by famous firms. Go to events, podcasts, interviews.

I created a “Substack for fiction” because I wanted to publish myself without having to beg for attention of a few gatekeepers.

Re: Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

#35

Post by majormajor »

Interestingly, labels playing games about releasing albums is an old trick for various old reasons too. https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2010/apr/15/arti... https://www.buzzfeed.com/azafar/what-happens-when-your-favor... for a couple old references

A change in negotiation power seems like a good evolution of the industry for anyone but record industry execs.

But this "record industry is committing suicide" story that the software world likes to read about is even older than the "hollywood is committing suicide" story, since Napster was just music to start with. And yet here we are. Other than the shift in the cut (which is great!), what's going to change? There's still going to be centralization around platforms (TikTok, Spotify, radio) and a need for a partner for things like touring and marketing etc. So will the new boss look that different than the old boss?

Re: Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

#36

Post by latchkey »

ericwaller wrote: post #28
latchkey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does SeatGeek get around not owning the venue?

Almost as a rule, in the US at least, large multi-purpose venues sign exclusive contracts with their ticketing provider. That means that all events, including any concerts that come through the building, are ticketed by the venue's chosen ticketing provider. While we're probably better known as a consumer app for buying tickets, SeatGeek also builds the full set of software you need to run a major venue. Everything f…

Thanks Eric.

I'm pretty intimately familiar with the whole industry. I once owned a small (~2k person) club / live music / multiuse venue in San Francisco as well as built a ticketing SaSS for USCF (us cycling federation) sanctioned events.

From the club days, I got subtly screwed by Clear Channel on an event once and it really left a bad taste in my mouth. From the cycling ticket stuff, I got to deal with another type of promoter and that was horrible in a lot of ways too. Both businesses eventually failed from external factors.

I don't envy your sales team at all.

Re: Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

#37

Post by damontal »

BMc2020 wrote: post #21
AlbertCory wrote: post #14

When I read this, I was trying to map "record labels" and "music" onto "big 5 publishers" and "books." The Big 5 are not quite there yet, but you can almost feel it gestating in the minds of those executives: "publish your book yourself, and if it's a hit, then we'll reprint it and do your next one." In the other article by Ted Gioia (the talk with Rick Beato), Ted said, back in the old days, half the people in the r…

Ricks youtube video with Brian May was so good I sent it to friends. Try to find him doing one of your favorite songs if you want to hear stuff like "here they go from an F sharp into a diminished 7th and that shouldn't work but they make it work." I know nothing about music but I love to hear master craftsmen, no matter the craft, talk about their trade and not dumb it down.

You might like McCartney 321 on Hulu. He basically sits at a sound board with Rick Rubin isolating tracks and talking about how the songs came together.

Re: Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

#38

Post by bryans »

ericwaller wrote: post #28
latchkey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does SeatGeek get around not owning the venue?

Almost as a rule, in the US at least, large multi-purpose venues sign exclusive contracts with their ticketing provider. That means that all events, including any concerts that come through the building, are ticketed by the venue's chosen ticketing provider. While we're probably better known as a consumer app for buying tickets, SeatGeek also builds the full set of software you need to run a major venue. Everything f…

I realize that your primary target is major venues, but do you have any plans for expanding to 200-500 cap venues? A management solution is desperately needed in that space!

Re: Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

#39

Post by ericwaller »

TAKEMYMONEY wrote: post #33
ericwaller wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone who wants to take a crack at building a competitor on the ticketing side: https://seatgeek.com/jobs

please make a "We're hiring!" submission instead of hijacking conversation to shill for the poor man's StubHub (smart move bailing on Billy Beane’s SPAC btw)

Heh, I may get overly excited to tell people that we're building a Ticketmaster/Live Nation competitor... The sentiment that one is sorely needed is so common, and yet so few people know we're doing it (the StubHub comparison is more typical)

Re: Record labels dig their own grave, and the shovel is called TikTok

#40

Post by ushakov »

spread_love wrote: post #31
ushakov wrote: post #27

if you want to learn more about how music business works for artists, here’s a famous 1993 piece “The Problem with Music” https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-problem-with-music

This article mentions why this model (and your article) is quickly becoming outdated: > record labels who sign TikTok stars initially demanded complete ownership of all the master recordings, and tried to keep 85% of future revenues. [Musicians] wouldn’t even collect the paltry 15% until they paid off their advance. > but TikTok influencers now have so many labels chasing after them, they can play them off against ea…

the model won’t disappear any time soon

do you think people really care about TikTok artists?

one example i’m familiar with are the Island Boys

they’ve got their 15 minutes of fame, but no more than that

TikTok audience is practically trained to receive a new dose of serotonin on every swipe and if they’re seeing the same person again, that ain’t gonna do it

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