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Science Is Getting Harder

mattsclancy.substack.com

81–90 of 150 posts

Re: Science Is Getting Harder

#81

This is especially true in math and physics. You will find that no matter what problem you can think of, either it has already been solved to the highest level of abstraction, or it's an unsolved and famous problem, or not worthwhile/trivial. Like, what about analogous of elliptic functions for non-elliptic integrals? already been done. The past century has seen a huge explosion of research into STEM subjects, from m…

Well. I wonder. You generalize a bit from maths and physics to all of STEM there, and throw computer science in there too saying there's not too much new ground to break. But that isn't what I see when I survey the CS literature. Instead it feels like important areas get neglected and ignored, whilst enormous herds thunder towards fashionable topics.

My guess is this slowdown is happening for a few reasons:

1. Increased number of researchers = increased team size = less innovation. The article shows increase in team size but doesn't ponder the implications. Teams shy away from bold ideas, in my experience. If you want innovation it has to come from individuals empowered to work alone and recruit slowly. The moment you're put in a team situation you are suddenly expected to pitch and convince others to take a risk on an idea that perhaps you aren't even sure about yourself yet, which is a high bar to meet. And the team won't want to try it because if it works the glory will associate with the individual who came up with the idea and drove it forwards, leaving the others in the shade. So teamwork puts pressure on people to propose 'safe' ideas that were found outside the group, which nobody will object to and which everyone can share equally.

NB: non tech firms struggle to create new tech partly for this reason. They have a culture of creating so-called innovation teams. This practice is rampant in finance for example. I never saw an innovation team do anything truly surprising. You could always guess up front what topics they'd be "researching" before learning anything about them because the range of topics was so narrow.

2. State subsidies. We know these kill worker efficiency. If that weren't true the USSR would never have fallen behind the USA in terms of wealth. What the article refers to as science is really academia, and academia is dominated by ever increasing amounts of government money. Whilst the article phrases this as science getting "harder" it can also be seen as researchers simply becoming less efficient than they were in the past, which is exactly what we'd expect to happen given that academia is a parallel planned economy. Efficient here means in terms of discovery production not paper production, of course.

3. Falling paper quality. Another way to view (2). I feel like half my HN comments are about this problem these days but the quality of papers in some research fields is staggeringly low, sometimes junk quality. As in, you could throw out 90%+ of the papers and the field would get better not worse. In a few fields like "social bot" research or epidemiology I'd struggle to name any recent papers that weren't intellectually fraudulent in some way. If you join a field as a researcher because you feel like it's an important topic, and then discover that the papers published in the last 10-20 years are much more likely to be non-replicable or have nonsense methodologies than those published 50 years ago, then you'll probably end up reading older papers because you feel you get more out of them. Then you'll end up citing them more often as a result.

I definitely feel I saw this when reading the epidemiology literature. Papers from the 1950-1990 period were quite different to modern papers. Way less fancy maths, much easier to read, more obvious and logical questions being asked and no WTF moments. You definitely got a feeling that the authors were intellectually curious and wanted to understand epidemics. From 2000 onwards the papers became nearly always useless.

A big part of this is the post-2000s era explosion in the use of advanced statistical methods and, especially, the acceptance of unvalidated models as "science". The creation of free tools like R and STAN made it much easier and so many papers now are just people playing around with R and random arbitrary datasets. They plot some regressions and publish a paper. Unvalidated modelling seems to have destroyed a lot of fields, because to people who are rewarded for publishing it's basically crack cocaine. If your papers have to describe factual things about reality then you're limited in how much you can write about by cost of experimentation, difficulty of discovering new things etc. If your papers can describe arbitrary scenarios invented in a computer with no care given to validity, then those caps are removed and you can publish an infinite number of papers. Yet the actual value of such papers can be zero or lower.

So yeah. He shows graphs of discovery fall in exactly the same way across every single field he looks at, whilst output grows exponentially, and then concludes that "science" in general is getting harder. But then that's clearly not been true of some fields like AI lately. It seems more likely that such a strongly correlated trend is caused by structural issues in academia rather than a true general effect.

Re: Science Is Getting Harder

#83
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you've not met my advisors. Please no. Old scientists sometimes contribute to push the younger generation forward. In my experience though, most of the time they're a liability, due to their incredibly overdeveloped ego and their deep involvement into politics. I'm an academic MD, so this phenomenon might be more marked than in other fields. See the book "the structure of scientific revolutions".

There's no private industry competition in academia, which allows those old scientists to become old slow codgers. Most scientific breakthroughs through out history were just private citizens outside of the conventional academic establishment. We need to put an end to these government restrictions on buying supplies and equipment which keeps the research down to just a tiny fraction of the population. Allowing privat…

it's not the government restriction, but wage slaving that keeps private individuals from making scientific breakthroughs. Perhaps UBI could be the answer.

Re: Science Is Getting Harder

#84
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics happens via communication, but what differentiates politics is that it is mostly about resource allocation. People don't (usually) get pissed off about idle chitchat. They do when their project is spiked.

OK, but it's a particular kind of resource allocation. Economics is about resource allocation using money and markets. Politics is about resource allocation using... influence? Connections? Coercion? If we had an open, transparent market where sponsors could bid on research, it might work better. (Hey, HN: Anybody want to set up such a market, funding it by taking a small cut of the bid?)

economics is the justification/rationalism that politics puts forth for resource allocation.

Re: Science Is Getting Harder

#85
Not exactly the same question, but in terms of worker productivity, growth is (and has remained) linear:

https://twitter.com/ThomasPHI2/status/1516079802184343560?s=...

I've used as a general theory for why change in the world seems to be slowing down, since although it's stayed constant, it has slowed down on a % basis.

Re: Science Is Getting Harder

#86
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the context is pretty clear in both comments. "Politics" in this context means a form of communication, consensus and decision making in a group.

The first comment was clearly talking about the internal, institutional politics of things like professional societies, academic fields, etc, while if we look at the other branch of this particular subthread we have a pretty long post about things like the media and international politics. Perhaps it is impossible to nip talk of the latter type of politics in the bud, though.

I'm not especially convinced that the two are entirely separate. It feels to me that they sprout from the same source, more or less. I suppose it depends on where you want to draw a line around a very fuzzy word ("politics").

My intent in bringing up the issue originally was that when you have larger groups of people interacting, you get larger-scale patterns of communication. People form groups and sub-groups; people give support to groups based on trust of that group or one of its representatives, rather than getting to know everyone individually; higher-level conglomerations of ideals form because tracking every issue in detail is too much, etc.

There's a lot of gunk that comes along with that. But it is not all bad, or destructive. It can even be _con_structive.

I think that generally applies to institutional politics as well as national/world politics.

Re: Science Is Getting Harder

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a scientist at heart, and my PhD is science, but this is a very good description of why I decided to work as an engineer instead.

I worked for a midsize company that required the CEO be named on all patent applications. I am not sure engineering is exempt.

> I worked for a midsize company that required the CEO be named on all patent applications.

Unless the CEO actually was one of the inventors, that is grounds to invalidate the patents and there may be other consequences.

Re: Science Is Getting Harder

#88
This should be apparent to anyone who observes fundamental physics.

The 20th century saw massive increases in knowledge with relativity and then quantum mechanics (ie QM/QFT/QCD). There have been accomplishments in the 21st century but a lot of then (eg the Higgs boson) were confirming things theorized 50+ years ago. Despites decades of trying we're still to find a crack in the Standard Model. Yes we've eliminated a lot of options and that's important in the process of elimination but we don't really seem to be any closer to resolving the fundamental contradictions of QM and GR.

There's a fun list of unsolved problems in physics [1]. My favourite is the so-called vacuum catastrophe [2] where the predicted (from QFT) and actual vacuum energy diverge by roughly 120 orders of magnitude. At the other end of the spectrum is the magnetic moment prediction vs actual [3] that differ by less than 10 parts per billion.

I'm actually losing faith we'll see meaningful progres sin a lot of these areas in my lifetime and I never used to think that.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_p...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant_problem

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_tests_of_QED

Re: Science Is Getting Harder

#89
post #66

I feel like life in general is getting harder. There is less chance of escaping past mistakes, or more chance that a mistake will ruin you. There are more things you have to stay on top of benefits and finance wise. There are more options for many things, which leads to more analysis of what's best. The systems we use every day, from cars to computers, are more complex.

At the same age? Your comment just sounds like someone that is getting wiser with age. I agree to all you said, but I think it's because I am wiser with age. Is life really getting harder at the same age and at the same opportunity? Man, this is hard question to ask because you are looking at the rear view mirror.

Re: Science Is Getting Harder

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... the most destructive force in any human endeavor: politics. I imagine you were being tongue-in-cheek, but just to unreasonably latch onto that statement a bit: politics is certainly infuriating, and it's easy to treat it as some unalloyed Bad Thing that we wish would just go away, but politics is essentially communication, and so it can be a good thing, too. The bigger the group, the more communication you need…

Imagine we somehow were able to purge all political and media influence, past and present, from the minds of each person today. And then had them rank the issues they find most relevant in the world. Where do you think the things people today spend all their time politicking on would rank? Similarly imagine they wrote out their 'oughts' of what the world ought look like in their eyes. How much overlap do you think th…

> Where do you think the things people today spend all their time politicking on would rank?

I realize "politicking" is often used in a derogatory sense, and perhaps that's how you mean it here, but there is a whole lot of plain-old-politics that takes place on a regular basis which has good overlap with those issues you hinted at. Things like: planning and building infrastructure, making sure people do not go hungry or thirsty and that they have places to live, having common laws, etc. A list kind of like "what have the Romans ever done for us?"[1].

Certainly, politics/politicking can also have an amplifying effect on the bad stuff too, as you mention.

I suppose my main issue with what you say is the bit starting: "politics invariably turns into a viral team sport ..." I don't see it as invariable. The pendulum has been swinging that direction recently, and I don't like it either, but I don't see it as a one-way road to doom.

Though I respect if you do feel that way, of course!

----

Aside:

Your comment led me to read a bit about history, and I found on Wikipedia[2]:

"According to a 2021 study, Franz Ferdinand's absence was key to the breakdown of diplomacy and escalation into war, as Ferdinand had been the most powerful and effective proponent for peace in Vienna."

Like you, I had the "an otherwise irrelevant Archduke" idea in my head, but I guess now I'm not so sure. So, thanks for the indirect new info (:

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Fran...

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