Who owns Parliament? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#51

Post by simonh » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:36 PM UTC

kcartlidge wrote: post #30

simonh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could get rid of the monarchy tomorrow and ordinary britons would notice zero change in our political and democratic freedoms. They are politically irrelevant, a few completely peripheral procedural and technical issues aside that make no real difference in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure if that's an argument for or against keeping the monarchy to be honest. They're a historical vestigial appendage of th…

> They are politically irrelevant, a few completely peripheral procedural and technical issues aside that make no real difference in the grand scheme of things. At the very least they own huge parts of the country, and the Queen has (and exercises as per recent Guardian stories) vetos and opt-outs of the laws the rest of us must follow. Regardless of that, even as a basic principle our country reeks of deference and…

As I said, peripheral procedural and technical issues aside that make no real difference.

The idea that these mean we have no democracy is absurd, and does no credit to the reasonable arguments for disestablishmentarianism.

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#52

Post by simonh » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:38 PM UTC

basisword wrote: post #50

arlort wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they own huge parts of the country And they would keep owning them if they were made to abdicate

Only if we let them.

We could always confiscate your property while we're at it. Every little helps. After all there can be few on this forum that aren't in the upper decile of wealth globally. Property is theft!

(er, kidding in case that wasn't obvious)

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#53

Post by keybored » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

goatcode wrote: post #14

Mikeb85 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some republics in Europe that did indeed overthrow their royalty/aristocracy...

And others that thought they did, only to find that they were the arms and legs of an even more brutal and incomprehensible regime.

Really? Which ones?

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#54

Post by keybored » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

bsedlm wrote: post #8

kcartlidge wrote: post #6

Here in the UK we're one day into a two day extra 'bank holiday' for the Queen's jubilee (70 years). Seems a good time to remind people of great sites like these, places that take the time to gather the evidence that reveals the truth behind royalty - descendants of thieves and murderers still profiting off the proceeds of their ancestral crimes, with their only 'qualification' being an accident of birth . We've neve…

I'd argue that while the current generation of nobles may in fact have done nothing much to earn them, they do have ancestors that fought bitterly, and in some cases quite sleazily, to earn and keep their privilege. the idea that "all men are equal" is not really true in Europe. And it's only supposedly true in America

I can’t tell if this is supposed to be even more of a scathing condemnation compared to what OP said.

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#55

Post by exdsq » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:47 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #13

kcartlidge wrote: post #6

Here in the UK we're one day into a two day extra 'bank holiday' for the Queen's jubilee (70 years). Seems a good time to remind people of great sites like these, places that take the time to gather the evidence that reveals the truth behind royalty - descendants of thieves and murderers still profiting off the proceeds of their ancestral crimes, with their only 'qualification' being an accident of birth . We've neve…

We could get rid of the monarchy tomorrow and ordinary britons would notice zero change in our political and democratic freedoms. They are politically irrelevant, a few completely peripheral procedural and technical issues aside that make no real difference in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure if that's an argument for or against keeping the monarchy to be honest. They're a historical vestigial appendage of th…

We don’t have a written constitution, so if you remove all the pomp and tradition it’s highly likely some things do actually go wrong as people forget they’re meant to happen.

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#56

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:48 PM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #38

plonk wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the system would be simpler if we removed root and gave capabilities to the sudoers instead. Edit: why does the disabled root account allocate so much RAM?

The root account was written when it was fashionable to be object-oriented, so its resource allocation is all due to inheritance. Scotland in particular is upset because of certain issues due to multiple inheritance.

[deleted]

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#57

Post by nicoburns » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #52

basisword wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if we let them.

We could always confiscate your property while we're at it. Every little helps. After all there can be few on this forum that aren't in the upper decile of wealth globally. Property is theft! (er, kidding in case that wasn't obvious)

The more pressing issue with land ownership in the UK is that we don't even know who owns large chunks of it.

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#58

Post by GauntletWizard » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:53 PM UTC

hiddencost wrote: post #42

Angostura wrote: post #15

We’re a constitutional monarchy AND a democracy. The monarch is the disabled root account of the nation. The government is the sudoers

The queen was exercising secret veto power, I don't think root was disabled. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr...

I think this is the link you meant, because when I click yours I just get a favicon:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vette...

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#59

Post by simonh » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:54 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #40

Angostura wrote: post #15

We’re a constitutional monarchy AND a democracy. The monarch is the disabled root account of the nation. The government is the sudoers

>The monarch is the disabled root account of the nation. The government is the sudoers except, even with "disabled root account", you can do "sudo su" to get a root shell. What's the equivalent of that in uk?

The supreme court?

Re: Who owns Parliament?

#60

Post by annyeonghada » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 6:54 PM UTC

kcartlidge wrote: post #34

etothepii wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's underserved. But the person of the sovereign in the British system can be a unifying figure impossible with an elected Head of State. Don't agree? Just look at how the red half of the US talk about Obama and the Blue half talk about Trump.

I really don't care about that. I also don't care about how dutiful the Queen is and what she's sacrificed to the role - though to be clear I do believe both those things at a personal level. It doesn't matter what incidental good it accomplishes if it goes against the fundamental principles of equality.

Equality is not "a fundamental principle", this is a modern conception of how society should be run while fundamental principles are absolute and eternal.

Even going back to only 100 years ago the idea that "we are all equal" would have sounded ridiculous. As an example, we could take the accounts about the role of schools in various educational systems in Europe: it was widespread belief that the function of such institutions was to select the ἄριστοι - àristoi, from which it derives aristocracy - the best among the best. School was intentionally set up as an exclusionary institution, opposed to our "inclusive" endeavor: it was considered obvious, a "fundamental principle" even, that some people were better, in some sense or in another, than others.