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1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

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Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#91

Post by bryans »

armchairhacker wrote: post #67

Yeah, in an ideal world content creators could make an entire salary off of donations and offering simple perks and exclusive access. But actually this is a terrible career advice and relatively few people actually end up making anywhere close to $100k on Twitch or Patreon. For each example the author mentions there are 100s if not 1,000s more who are wasting their time. We just aren’t a society where most people don…

> But actually this is a terrible career advice and relatively few people actually end up making anywhere close to $100k on Twitch or Patreon. [...] I think Patreon is a great tool to give you a decent supplement to your income

There are relatively few content creators making $100k/yr from a single platform, but there are tons of people making that and more by utilizing all of the platforms. The first piece of advice I always give to musicians is to treat every social media and streaming platform as its own "venue" with their own unique set of users -- because they are. Always performing at the same venue in your hometown isn't going to be lucrative or sustainable, so you branch out to other venues and other cities, because that's the only way to find new markets.

The same is true for all content creation. Focusing on in-person performances ignores the entire online market, which is >99% of potential revenue. Focusing on Twitch ignores the opportunities of TikTok and YouTube. But if you take the time to understand the quirks of each platform and its users, and then chop up your content into sizes and styles appropriate for each platform, it's actually extremely easy to go from zero online presence to $10k/mo within two years.

Not everybody understands Patreon or wants to use it (and frankly, it's not a very usable site), so if your subscriptions are solely based around that platform, then you're ignoring 95% of the potential subscriber market and making everything more difficult than it needs to be. Content is content. It can go anywhere, and investing a few days into learning basic video editing makes content distribution a breeze.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#92

Post by Akronymus »

causi wrote: post #84
Akronymus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been called old for using acquaintance a twice. Which feels really weird to me, as I am not that old. ('97) I'd say I have about 3 friends at MOST, altough, more like 1 that I consider to truly be a friend. And I agree, friend is completely misused. On steam, friend means someone you want to be able to contact. On discord its someone you trust (more than regular people) or one you allow to contact you at all (…

My personal definition of "friend" has always been "someone not in your family you would want to inform if you found out you had cancer." It's served me quite well.

Id still consider that to be too broad.

Something like admitting to, that you have done something criminal,and what, feels closer to the right definition for me.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#93

Post by altdataseller »

newaccount74 wrote: post #63

What the article is describing isn't "fans" as much as plain old "customers". Almost all the examples given in the article are people doing courses. If you sell a course for $1000, then the person buying it isn't a "fan" who just gives you money, the buyer is just a customer who buys a service. The only thing new about this is that it's happening online; offering courses for $1000 is not exactly a new thing, it's a b…

But it's the VC world. They need to come up with new, innovative concepts so they can be seen as a thought leader! /s

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#94

Post by yojo »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #53
cushychicken wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's encouraging if you think of it as a funnel optimization problem. What can I do for the $100 per year set? T shirts or other swag? Signed merch? What can I do for the $10 per year set? Stickers?

Surprisingly we don't have a ton of creators offering swag stuff, I'd have assumed that it would have been a bigger draw (Some of that might have to do with us not really offering any support on our platform, but it's not a common request either). If there's a "product" to sell, it's usually either the content itself, or access through things like community. But like I said in another comment, how much people spend i…

Maybe it’s just early days?

I remember in early internet times webcomics were one of the few niches where creators were trying to make a living on the internet.

At first it was “easy” - ad rates were super inflated in the dot com boom, and people were making rent with “punch the monkey and win” banner ads.

Then came the crash and the bottom fell out of the ad market. A lot of creators just went away, but the ones who held on generally monetized via merch.

Granted, these were people that were both funny and had graphic design chops, so novelty t-shirts were a natural fit.

Presumably the buyer demand was always there, but no one discovered it until they were forced to do the hard thing of flailing for cash.

Possibly as the market matures and people test more monetization methods we’ll see more podcast shwag.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#95

Post by altdataseller »

esrauch wrote: post #34
wodenokoto wrote: post #17

I'm quite interested in learning more about what kind of things people are willing to pay 80-100 USD a month for on Patreon. The author also throws around some percentages of the growth of hig end payers on Patreon, but no hard numbers. Did it increase by 5 people? Are high paying patrons growing faster than low paying?

On Twitch people commonly give $100 for absolute nothing, just to be thanked by the creator live, which they would do for significantly less money as well, often just $5. I suspect the top tiers at Patreon must work the same, there's some benefit there but people are doing it because they are a megafan and want to show it. I'd be intested in how many of them are living in a false belief / parasocial relationship thou…

$100 for 1 piece of content, yes, but $100 regularly per month?

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#96

Post by burnished »

gwd wrote: post #49
ryanbrunner wrote: post #37

I work for a company that's very much like Patreon for podcasters (Supercast). The people who will pay $1K a year to support a creator absolutely exist, but they are a small subset of the people who will pay $100 / year, which is itself a very small subset of the people who will listen to your podcast. Some rough numbers: - A podcast with an engaged fan base can usually get about 5% of their listeners to support them…

> So sure, you can be self-sufficient on 100 $1K a year fans, but to get there, you need 5,000 $100 / year fans (which needs 100,000 listeners), and not doing anything for them is leaving money on the table. And probably more importantly, losing people out of the funnel: after all, most people don't go from 0 to $1k/year fan in an instant; they'll try out the free service, upgrade to being a $100/year fan, and from t…

>most people don't go from 0 to $1k/year fan in an instant; they'll try out the free service, upgrade to being a $100/year fan, and from there upgrade to being a $1k/year fan

How do you know this? I'm mentally contrasting with monetization in games which I don't think follows that model, I think it is more like; if you are spending over 100$ its by repeating some smaller behavior (microtransactions), as opposed to deepening your investment thoughtfully as a function of time. Or, you're going to kickstart a game, and from the outset you're probably going to fall loosely into one bin of 20$-200$-2000$.

I don't have anything to back up what I'm suggesting (purely anecdotal) and I'm asking you because I'm interested in sturdier arguments than my own (or other experiences leading to different perspectives!).

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#97

Post by GeorgeBanica »

newaccount74 wrote: post #63

What the article is describing isn't "fans" as much as plain old "customers". Almost all the examples given in the article are people doing courses. If you sell a course for $1000, then the person buying it isn't a "fan" who just gives you money, the buyer is just a customer who buys a service. The only thing new about this is that it's happening online; offering courses for $1000 is not exactly a new thing, it's a b…

>What the article is describing isn't "fans" as much as plain old "customers".

This doesn't apply to webnovels. There are people there making over $1000 a month (some over $15 000) publishing completely free webnovels.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#98

Post by rchaud »

ep103 wrote: post #89
rr808 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about creators, but I get swag and invites from charities and it annoys me. I'm donating to give them resources, if I want a T Shirt I'll buy one myself thanks, I dont need them spending money on me.

Two things: 1 - Them sending you a teeshirt is a form of advertising. They're hoping you will wear it and be an advocate for them in your social circle. This is a reasonable thing to spend money on. 2 - Engagement. They're trying to keep you engaged in what they're doing, this is valuable too. Of course, you don't want them spending all their resources on this, but a certain percentage is absolutely a good idea. This…

I disagree that Tshirts are a reasonable marketing expense. For one thing, they're relatively expensive to produce and ship on a per unit basis, and you will need to order in multiple sizes. Second, most 'brand' t-shirts are low effort logo templates made from BigCartel.com that look fugly. They're clearly an afterthought.

And because of that, those tshirts will end up in a landfill somewhere, just like the majority of soulless corporate swag that you'd accumulate visiting a trade show.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#99

Post by failTide »

rr808 wrote: post #57
cushychicken wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's encouraging if you think of it as a funnel optimization problem. What can I do for the $100 per year set? T shirts or other swag? Signed merch? What can I do for the $10 per year set? Stickers?

I'm not sure about creators, but I get swag and invites from charities and it annoys me. I'm donating to give them resources, if I want a T Shirt I'll buy one myself thanks, I dont need them spending money on me.

I donated ONE TIME to a classical radio network in Southern California and over the next 5 years they proceeded to send me mailers that cost at least what I'd donated. They did eventually stop.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#100

Post by bryans »

oceanplexian wrote: post #90

Obviously this is HN and not r/Livestreamfail, but the vast majority of Super Fans are not buying courses or supporting the development of content. The real Super Fans have an unhealthy obsession with an online personality and think they are going to buy a friendship, or a girlfriend, or some other reciprocity. I worked in this industry for a bit. A lot of times big donors will dump their life savings or steal a fami…

I've consulted with several hundred live streamers, and none of what you're saying is reflective of their experiences. It is outrageously false and disparaging to claim that the vast majority (or even a significant portion) of large contributors are somehow dysfunctional and that content creators are exploiting them.

Some people build cars for fun and spend their disposable income on that experience. Other people enjoy online content and spend their disposable income ensuring that content keeps getting made, or can be made even better. To declare an entire populations' preferred hobby as "dysfunctional" is plainly inflammatory and entirely inappropriate.

> The companies pushing this have all the data and know exactly what's going on, but market to this demographic anyway.

"The companies" aren't marketing high-cost options in any way. Twitch's highest subscription tier is $25/mo. Patreon suggests a higher tier of $30. Those are not "ruin mom's credit" or "dump your life savings" prices, so it's disingenuous (at best) to suggest that something nefarious and exploitative is happening in regards to platforms' marketing efforts.

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