Google cancelled a talk on caste bias • Hacker News Board

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#251

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17

rsstack wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to weigh in. But, if few Indian managers discriminate against Dalits, how are their non-Indian peers and managers supposed to correct that discrimination if they don't even understand what are castes? This isn't political, it's professional: US laws and Google policies forbid discrimination, and so people need to be trained in understanding what discrimination looks like. You don't categorize "securit…

> US laws and Google policies forbid discrimination Does U.S. law have precedent for discussing caste? There is a case for typing the lowest-caste Indians, the Dalits this cancelled talk was meant to discuss, as a race and thus protected class under U.S. and Californian law. But I don't know if this is legally precedented.

Arguably it’s not protected right? Caste is more or less like the old European class distinction between royals and commoners. Nobody contends that lower caste people are a different race than higher caste people. (And I would argue it would be problematic to try and reframe caste distinctions in racial terms.) As far as I know, class discrimination isn’t illegal in the US.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#252

Post by bobobob420 » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

civilized wrote: post #236

bobobob420 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You're just one person. It's obvious that you don't personally know about caste discrimination in all of the United States. If you had data it would be another matter, but you presented none and I'm pretty sure it's because you have none. It's not a subjective matter, it's just transparently absurd.

No post body was provided.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#253

Post by throwaway71271 » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #46

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

In Europe, you can always reliably find a massive amount of racism against the Romani people ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people ).

the roma i know just want to live in a different way, they dont really want to participate in the system we have built.

they live by another set of rules and values

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_society_and_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_(Romani_court)

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#254

Post by otterley » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #24

rsstack wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to weigh in. But, if few Indian managers discriminate against Dalits, how are their non-Indian peers and managers supposed to correct that discrimination if they don't even understand what are castes? This isn't political, it's professional: US laws and Google policies forbid discrimination, and so people need to be trained in understanding what discrimination looks like. You don't categorize "securit…

> But, if few Indian managers discriminate against Dalits, how are their non-Indian peers and managers supposed to correct that discrimination if they don't even understand what are castes? Shouldn't the managers and decision makers be aware of the local customs, cultural issues and employment laws in the region they manage? You really think it's appropriate for some white American manager to lecture his Indian subor…

Why does it matter what the race of the speaker is?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#255

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

pradn wrote: post #31

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagot A persecuted minority in France.

[deleted]

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#256

Post by baisq » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

tokai wrote: post #217

baisq wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

That's literally how racism against Afro Americans is often excused towards Euros.

Yes, I was going to add to that comment that Europeans can't understand the treatment of blacks in America either.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#257

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

ffggvv wrote: post #233

yalogin wrote: post #118

The talk should have allowed to go through. The post I think said it right, people wanted to shut it down and the only way to do it is to discredit the speaker because they know there is truth to the arguments. However we should step back and think about how important it in the American context. What purpose is that talk going to serve? I don’t know if it does anything other than satisfying esoteric learning needs of…

idk woke people are obsessed with protecting very small minority groups. in fact often the smaller the better in terms of virtue signaling points. so it just goes to show how hypocritical Google is being when they are mega woke on every other facet. probably because their ceo harbors a like for the caste system

[deleted]

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#258

Post by walkhour » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

lyaa wrote: post #193

lexapro wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seem to be more women in QA in general. Genuinely asking: Is this also sexism?

At least partly. When I was starting out, I would apply to dev positions only to get offers to interview for lower-paid QA positions. After changing to a gender-neutral nickname and removing all female-identifying terms from my resume, I got the interviews for dev positions.

You claim "at least partly" and then proceed to prove it with anecdotal evidence. You'd need to prove it with a study similar to the ones that send identical CVs to companies, just changing one thing, which is what they want to discover if there's bias against.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#259

Post by jspaetzel » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #10

Do we need every mega-corporation to weigh in on every social issue globally? The thing I like most about work is that its a relatively diverse group of people working together on shared goal. People have known for a long time that work should be professional and you should avoid politics and religion. But I guess people have to relearn these lessons every few decades.

It wouldn't even be a "relatively diverse" group if we didn't work at it continuously. This is just the latest difficult step.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#260

Post by lthornberry » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 2:34 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #154

There's a lot of bias in the tech industry, not just caste. if your company is sufficiently large it will have various HR policies on this and in my experience they will enumerate the kinds of discrimination they don't tolerate. Here's an exercise for you: go through the list of US protected classes [1] and see which ones are explicitly stated and which ones aren't. It's actually enlightening. For example, I don't th…

Age discrimination is illegal by statute - the Age Discrimination in Employment Act. If you haven't seen that, it might give you pause about whether you have enough information about this subject to form an informed opinion.