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1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

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Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#41

Post by Akronymus »

tluyben2 wrote: post #25
Existenceblinks wrote: post #12

Newcomers started doing this on twitter for a while and turn social media from platform ads to federation ads network .. it's getting worse, like everybody is literally selling to each other. Remember old "long time no see" friends shown up trying to sell you something? Aghh now everyone pretends to be friend and sell you something.

The word 'friend' is really abused these days (guess because of Facebook etc) and people are somehow falling for it. Seems it's becoming quite common (in my circles anyway) that people use the term friend for basically everyone they ever talked or wrote to and 'good friend' for people they had a deeper than casual talk with. And then the drama after because these 'friends' probably didn't think the same about them (i…

I have been called old for using acquaintance a twice. Which feels really weird to me, as I am not that old. ('97)

I'd say I have about 3 friends at MOST, altough, more like 1 that I consider to truly be a friend. And I agree, friend is completely misused.

On steam, friend means someone you want to be able to contact. On discord its someone you trust (more than regular people) or one you allow to contact you at all (if dms are otherwise turned off) and so on.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#42

Post by ryanbrunner »

Applejinx wrote: post #35

Of course this poses other challenges. You'll end up an 'artist' of gilding toilet seats for rich and demanding 'customers' who are very clear on what they want. That ain't me: my branding is aligned with what my actual values and heritage are, and it's profoundly oriented towards the folks who have skills and dreams but no resources, and so I make open source software supporting 'em. I get excited when I can support…

I think the difference between what you're saying and this article is that you have customers, not patrons (or you're treating your patrons like customers).

The people who shell out $1K a year aren't generally doing it because they are getting a product or service in return that is worth $1K / year to them, they're doing it because they believe in the mission of the creator and want to help support that.

Most of our creators that have a "crazy amount of money" plan generally don't offer anything extra beyond gratitude to the big spenders (public gratitude, but still just gratitude). And oddly enough, the big spenders tend to be the least demanding. So long as you don't overcharge them or something, they don't have many demands, because they were never thinking of it as purchasing something in the first place.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#43

Post by Akronymus »

esrauch wrote: post #34
wodenokoto wrote: post #17

I'm quite interested in learning more about what kind of things people are willing to pay 80-100 USD a month for on Patreon. The author also throws around some percentages of the growth of hig end payers on Patreon, but no hard numbers. Did it increase by 5 people? Are high paying patrons growing faster than low paying?

On Twitch people commonly give $100 for absolute nothing, just to be thanked by the creator live, which they would do for significantly less money as well, often just $5. I suspect the top tiers at Patreon must work the same, there's some benefit there but people are doing it because they are a megafan and want to show it. I'd be intested in how many of them are living in a false belief / parasocial relationship thou…

I have a few streamers I occasionally throw money at. But those are ones I actually interact with outside of the streams/very small streamers, without deluding myself to think they are my friends. They owe me NOTHING.

Parasocial relationships are scary though. A few times I almost slipped into one. (Nowadays I intentionally stop watching streamers I feel I am getting too close to.)

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#44

Post by Havoc »

That does seem about right

Though the composition also matters. A small twitch streamer that recognises all their regulars usernames and interacts with them individually is likely to have a much higher concentration of die hard fans. So there the math works easier despite lower absolute numbers.

And that in turn is determined by what type of content it is and what type of parasocial relationship it is

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#45

Post by bko »

> Since 2017, the share of new patrons paying more than $100 per month—or $1,200 per year—has grown 21 percent

I think this is worded ingenuously. I originally read it that new patrons paying $100 per month has grown to 21%, but upon second reading I see that the percent has grown 21%. But what's the base line? Why not reference that? Is it relative compared to other subs (e.g. percent paying $100+ went from 1% -> 1.23%) or absolute (e.g. 1k people paying $100+ -> 1,230). I would think a large percent of that is probably friends and family.

Does anyone personally support a stranger creator to the tune of $100+ a month? It seems like a lot. What's the thought process and what do you expect?

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#46

Post by EGreg »

Immanuel Kant once formulated the categorical imperative … something is moral if it can work universally and be sustainable.

How about economically? Is it sustainable to have every artist supported by 100 true fans? Maybe. It means enough people have disposable income to spend $1000 a year on something, and that every artist finds a niche. Those artists who already got 100 fans would drop out of the marketplace, leaving the others until everyone found a dance partner (like with dating).

Viewed more broadly, though, this would go heavily against the Pareto principle, where some artists simply achieve escape velocity and get to a different level because they never leave the market, while most artists do not produce anything that people would really pay to consume, even if they discovered it over and over. It is like polygamy starving many young men of mates, and polygamy goes hand in hand with war.

I think a much more sustainable model is a UBI that isn’t truly “unconditional” but a gated community where successful artists and their patrons voluntarily agree to redistribute some wealth to new artists that keep showing progress in their craft. Crypto can be done to redistribute this wealth.

But that would mean there would be quotas on who can join as a new struggling artist and get the UBI subsidy, since it’s free money for any scammer, especially globally it could pay for a lot more where cost of living is small. People would try to make 10 accounts.

It is essentially voluntary socialism online. And one major problem with libertarian socialism and why it can’t solve poverty is that people don’t want to let in too many others into their subsidy program that pays non-market rates for what could be art no one wants. So yes the workers own the factory collectively and work 2 hour days but they do hazing for new people. That’s what countries do with immigration and fraternities do on college campuses.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#47

Post by vintermann »

esrauch wrote: post #34
wodenokoto wrote: post #17

I'm quite interested in learning more about what kind of things people are willing to pay 80-100 USD a month for on Patreon. The author also throws around some percentages of the growth of hig end payers on Patreon, but no hard numbers. Did it increase by 5 people? Are high paying patrons growing faster than low paying?

On Twitch people commonly give $100 for absolute nothing, just to be thanked by the creator live, which they would do for significantly less money as well, often just $5. I suspect the top tiers at Patreon must work the same, there's some benefit there but people are doing it because they are a megafan and want to show it. I'd be intested in how many of them are living in a false belief / parasocial relationship thou…

Some of these megafan donations are probably fakes, the streamer sending themselves money with an alt in the hope that real people follow. The platform has little incentive to stop that sort of thing.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#48

Post by cushychicken »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #37

I work for a company that's very much like Patreon for podcasters (Supercast). The people who will pay $1K a year to support a creator absolutely exist, but they are a small subset of the people who will pay $100 / year, which is itself a very small subset of the people who will listen to your podcast. Some rough numbers: - A podcast with an engaged fan base can usually get about 5% of their listeners to support them…

That's encouraging if you think of it as a funnel optimization problem.

What can I do for the $100 per year set? T shirts or other swag? Signed merch?

What can I do for the $10 per year set? Stickers?

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#49

Post by gwd »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #37

I work for a company that's very much like Patreon for podcasters (Supercast). The people who will pay $1K a year to support a creator absolutely exist, but they are a small subset of the people who will pay $100 / year, which is itself a very small subset of the people who will listen to your podcast. Some rough numbers: - A podcast with an engaged fan base can usually get about 5% of their listeners to support them…

> So sure, you can be self-sufficient on 100 $1K a year fans, but to get there, you need 5,000 $100 / year fans (which needs 100,000 listeners), and not doing anything for them is leaving money on the table.

And probably more importantly, losing people out of the funnel: after all, most people don't go from 0 to $1k/year fan in an instant; they'll try out the free service, upgrade to being a $100/year fan, and from there upgrade to being a $1k/year fan. The pitch of this article, it seemed to me, isn't to get rid of the lower tiers, but to add an extra tier on the top.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#50

Post by mcv »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #37

I work for a company that's very much like Patreon for podcasters (Supercast). The people who will pay $1K a year to support a creator absolutely exist, but they are a small subset of the people who will pay $100 / year, which is itself a very small subset of the people who will listen to your podcast. Some rough numbers: - A podcast with an engaged fan base can usually get about 5% of their listeners to support them…

Makes sense. You can't focus on just the true fans, because at first, you don't have any. First you focus on just getting listeners, then on fans who are willing to pay something, and only once that group gets big enough, does it make sense to focus on the $1000/y "true" fans.

And if your numbers are correct, you're already making $500k/y from $100 fans by the time you can make $100k/y from the $1000 fans. So the middle is still more lucrative, even if the top is growing.

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