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Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

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Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#121

Post by colin_mccabe »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #113

Turns out that we've been building cities wrong for the last 100 years. Whoopsie. It took a pandemic to get people to realize that the status quo of hopping in their car and sitting in traffic twice a day to get to work and back every day is a hugely frustrating waste of time. It doesn't have to be this way. We can build more housing near where people work. We can build bike lanes and public transit. It's entirely po…

I do wish we spent more on bike paths and infrastructure. It's much cheaper than any of the other transit initiatives. However, it becomes very difficult to use them if you have to drop off kids in the morning. So it is never going to be an option for a lot of people.

In general, working from home makes cities and public transit a lot less relevant. There isn't a strong reason for everyone to get on a train to the big city, if they can just sit at home and work. When you add crime, COVID-19, pollution, etc. into the mix the case for just staying home seems even better.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#122

Post by bshoemaker »

Johnny555 wrote: post #6

That's one reason for sure, but even if my house was a 10 minute walk from the office, I'd still rather only go in for meetings. At home I have my own private office with a nice view. I have a nice set of speakers and can play any music I like. If I want to go for a walk, I'm in a quiet suburban neighborhood with hiking trails nearby. The kitchen is always stocked with snacks I like plus freshly prepared healthy lunc…

You are one of the very few people to have no kids and a seemingly utopian home. This does not seem like an experience most would have.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#123

Post by rhino369 »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #51
Johnny555 wrote: post #6

That's one reason for sure, but even if my house was a 10 minute walk from the office, I'd still rather only go in for meetings. At home I have my own private office with a nice view. I have a nice set of speakers and can play any music I like. If I want to go for a walk, I'm in a quiet suburban neighborhood with hiking trails nearby. The kitchen is always stocked with snacks I like plus freshly prepared healthy lunc…

>There's enough background noise in the open office that I keep headphones on most of the time while I'm at my desk. I still don't get how we as a species went "this is fine". The complete loss of audiovisual privacy is such an immense drain. I'll buy the "being close together works better" argument, but I still can't grasp how that offsets all the distractions in the modern office.

Cubicals were much better but they were "lame" and "soulless."

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#124

Post by goatcode »

colechristensen wrote: post #65
angarg12 wrote: post #23

All of my career I prioritized short commutes, which led to living in tiny apartments (as small as 25 sqmt) within a short commute from work. When Covid hit we had just moved to a new 1 bed flat and were paying our highest rent yet, but hey, 15 minutes commute! When it became evident we were in for the long haul we started looking to move again. We ended up moving to a 3 bed house with garden in a tiny village close…

Everyone on HN who loves urban density should read things like this. Quality of life cooped up in a dense urban setting, especially with a family, is awful. There's so much space in the world, we don't need to pack ourselves in tiny urban centers near "tech hubs" at all.

Disagree. Life in the country is horrible. Please don't come, stay in cities, everyone. You wouldn't like it here at all : >

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#125

Post by Steltek »

colechristensen wrote: post #65
angarg12 wrote: post #23

All of my career I prioritized short commutes, which led to living in tiny apartments (as small as 25 sqmt) within a short commute from work. When Covid hit we had just moved to a new 1 bed flat and were paying our highest rent yet, but hey, 15 minutes commute! When it became evident we were in for the long haul we started looking to move again. We ended up moving to a 3 bed house with garden in a tiny village close…

Everyone on HN who loves urban density should read things like this. Quality of life cooped up in a dense urban setting, especially with a family, is awful. There's so much space in the world, we don't need to pack ourselves in tiny urban centers near "tech hubs" at all.

My kids have independence and freedom of movement long before they're even close to driving age. Something they can never have in the suburbs.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#126

Post by goatcode »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #113

Turns out that we've been building cities wrong for the last 100 years. Whoopsie. It took a pandemic to get people to realize that the status quo of hopping in their car and sitting in traffic twice a day to get to work and back every day is a hugely frustrating waste of time. It doesn't have to be this way. We can build more housing near where people work. We can build bike lanes and public transit. It's entirely po…

Having lived in both city and non-city for equal portions of my life, I don't care how "efficient" the commute is (or how inefficient its alternatives are forced to become by those who dislike cars), city life is horrendous. I can't understand why, especially after covid, anyone thinks it's a good idea to lived packed like mice in a concrete box, with only a few trees you don't own and have to share with everyone. No thanks. Never again.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#127

Post by RestlessMind »

Johnny555 wrote: post #120
RestlessMind wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because "we as a species" evolved to work in groups. Humans are not loners. We eat, work, recreate and live in groups. To ship any complex groundbreaking product, you have to collaborate closely with a big group. Only in the last few decades, and only a minority of Human population in that period, has there been so much emphasis on "privacy".

To ship any complex groundbreaking product, you have to collaborate closely with a big group. My company shipped several ground breaking projects during COVID enforced WFH where there was not even the possibility of getting together in person. And now as we've grown we've added teams all over the globe (3 offices in the USA, one in Canada, 2 in Europe and one coming online soon in Australia), so collaboration on a co…

During COVID, we relied on the existing relationships and the shared context to get things done. In fact, it was a once in a century event and was easy to rally troops, the same way it is easy to unify a society when there is a war.

Now that most of the team is churned, I am observing a steep drop in productivity. New members have neither any shared context nor any meaningful bonds between them. If I were to bet, I would put my money on in-person teams easily outperforming fully-remote teams. Looking forward to see some data in the next few years.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#128

Post by pmontra »

Johnny555 wrote: post #6

That's one reason for sure, but even if my house was a 10 minute walk from the office, I'd still rather only go in for meetings. At home I have my own private office with a nice view. I have a nice set of speakers and can play any music I like. If I want to go for a walk, I'm in a quiet suburban neighborhood with hiking trails nearby. The kitchen is always stocked with snacks I like plus freshly prepared healthy lunc…

I had a small house that happened to be in different years: at a 10 minutes walk from my office, at a 1h 15m commute from my next job, the place where I've been working when I became self employed. With hindsight (which I didn't have) I would go to the office close to home for meetings and probably go out to lunch with colleagues (it foster careers.) But nothing beats working from home with one's own customers.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#129

Post by longstation »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #113

Turns out that we've been building cities wrong for the last 100 years. Whoopsie. It took a pandemic to get people to realize that the status quo of hopping in their car and sitting in traffic twice a day to get to work and back every day is a hugely frustrating waste of time. It doesn't have to be this way. We can build more housing near where people work. We can build bike lanes and public transit. It's entirely po…

That's exactly what the Soviet era was. Say you work in a hospital, you would be living within 10 minutes walk away from your office. You will eat in the hospital cafeteria. Your kids will go to the hospital-sponsored schools. Unsurprisingly, your neighbors will be your coworkers. Your kids' friends will be your coworkers' kids. Life is simple and efficient but there some other downsides that's probably not relevant here.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#130

Post by skirmish »

RestlessMind wrote: post #116
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's enough background noise in the open office that I keep headphones on most of the time while I'm at my desk. I still don't get how we as a species went "this is fine". The complete loss of audiovisual privacy is such an immense drain. I'll buy the "being close together works better" argument, but I still can't grasp how that offsets all the distractions in the modern office.

Because "we as a species" evolved to work in groups. Humans are not loners. We eat, work, recreate and live in groups. To ship any complex groundbreaking product, you have to collaborate closely with a big group. Only in the last few decades, and only a minority of Human population in that period, has there been so much emphasis on "privacy".

Are you saying that collaborating closely online is not collaborating?

Meanwhile family and pets provide social companionship. Why do you consider that inferior?

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