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Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

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Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#91

Post by wffurr »

colechristensen wrote: post #65
angarg12 wrote: post #23

All of my career I prioritized short commutes, which led to living in tiny apartments (as small as 25 sqmt) within a short commute from work. When Covid hit we had just moved to a new 1 bed flat and were paying our highest rent yet, but hey, 15 minutes commute! When it became evident we were in for the long haul we started looking to move again. We ended up moving to a 3 bed house with garden in a tiny village close…

Everyone on HN who loves urban density should read things like this. Quality of life cooped up in a dense urban setting, especially with a family, is awful. There's so much space in the world, we don't need to pack ourselves in tiny urban centers near "tech hubs" at all.

"closer to family" seemed like a big part of the improvement here.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#92

Post by turtlebits »

Johnny555 wrote: post #6

That's one reason for sure, but even if my house was a 10 minute walk from the office, I'd still rather only go in for meetings. At home I have my own private office with a nice view. I have a nice set of speakers and can play any music I like. If I want to go for a walk, I'm in a quiet suburban neighborhood with hiking trails nearby. The kitchen is always stocked with snacks I like plus freshly prepared healthy lunc…

Pretty sure most workers don't have ideal working conditions at home.

For me, it's the separation of work/home and seeing people in person. That said, there are also nice benefits - view, lunch/snacks, EV charging, better lighting and ventilation.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#93

Post by hintymad »

Am I the only one happy to see this? I love suburb for its quietness and access to nature. And I hate that my coworkers prefer socializing in bars or even discussing technical questions in bars. It would be so much better if companies move out of SF. In that way, SF residents will be happy too and will stop hating techies for destroying their way of life.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#94

Post by turtlebits »

colechristensen wrote: post #65
angarg12 wrote: post #23

All of my career I prioritized short commutes, which led to living in tiny apartments (as small as 25 sqmt) within a short commute from work. When Covid hit we had just moved to a new 1 bed flat and were paying our highest rent yet, but hey, 15 minutes commute! When it became evident we were in for the long haul we started looking to move again. We ended up moving to a 3 bed house with garden in a tiny village close…

Everyone on HN who loves urban density should read things like this. Quality of life cooped up in a dense urban setting, especially with a family, is awful. There's so much space in the world, we don't need to pack ourselves in tiny urban centers near "tech hubs" at all.

There are lots of suburban neighborhoods that will give short commutes. They just cost a bit more. I have a 7 minute commute, but live in a house with a yard - and walking distance to an Arboretum.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#95

Post by BlargMcLarg »

Ataraxic wrote: post #69
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's enough background noise in the open office that I keep headphones on most of the time while I'm at my desk. I still don't get how we as a species went "this is fine". The complete loss of audiovisual privacy is such an immense drain. I'll buy the "being close together works better" argument, but I still can't grasp how that offsets all the distractions in the modern office.

I feel like the unicorn where I both enjoyed my colleagues in the office and had a lot of fun. Was it _more_ productive? Hard to say but I could easily put on my headphones and work. The lack of visual privacy I realize but I would never say it hindered my work. Then again nobody was on me if I went on reddit for a bit because the tests are running. I think a bunch of people on hacker news are discounting how much mo…

If individuals can function under these circumstances or even like it, cool, fine, great. I just don't think it should be assumed everyone functions under these circumstances, or that someone who doesn't is dysfunctional, as pre-COVID almost made it seem. Managers seemed all to eager to discount anyone as "not a viable programmer" the moment they balked at the sound of an open office.

>I think a bunch of people on hacker news are discounting how much more you can learn in an office with helpful colleagues

It's tradeoffs, which I alluded to. It's not "you're forgetting X", it's more "are you really, really sure trading X against Y is the better deal here?" I'm young enough to have started in open offices, it was okay in the first few weeks and afterwards I started wondering whether being open to literally any passerby was worth the upgrade from IM to physical presence.

The moment I heard open offices reduced personal interaction compared to cubicles was the moment I casted doubt on anything regarding open offices and their efficacy.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#96

Post by christophilus »

Ataraxic wrote: post #69
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's enough background noise in the open office that I keep headphones on most of the time while I'm at my desk. I still don't get how we as a species went "this is fine". The complete loss of audiovisual privacy is such an immense drain. I'll buy the "being close together works better" argument, but I still can't grasp how that offsets all the distractions in the modern office.

I feel like the unicorn where I both enjoyed my colleagues in the office and had a lot of fun. Was it _more_ productive? Hard to say but I could easily put on my headphones and work. The lack of visual privacy I realize but I would never say it hindered my work. Then again nobody was on me if I went on reddit for a bit because the tests are running. I think a bunch of people on hacker news are discounting how much mo…

I loved aspects of my open office job. I had a few really good friends, and we'd play ping pong, video game, Frisbee, just goof off a whole lot. But I hated actually trying to work there.

I think this varies dramatically based on many factors, such as ADHD, introversion, etc. When I really wanted to get work done, I'd go home even though work from home wasn't allowed. They never fired me or even reprimanded me because I think they knew the office environment was BS. Also, I was one of the most productive employees in the entire company, and that was due largely to me working from home.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#97

Post by irrational »

Currently the main issue is the cost of gas. Pay $5.49/gallon (and I don't live in California where it is even more expensive!) to drive in, or work from home where over the past 2+ years I have shown that I can do my job perfectly well. Hmmm, such a hard decision.

Working from home I have better computer equipment, I don't have to waste time getting ready and driving in, half our team is remote so any meetings have to be over zoom anyway, our office doesn’t have assigned seating so I have to spend time wandering around looking for somewhere to work, etc. Such a no brainer.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#98

Post by countvonbalzac »

colechristensen wrote: post #65
angarg12 wrote: post #23

All of my career I prioritized short commutes, which led to living in tiny apartments (as small as 25 sqmt) within a short commute from work. When Covid hit we had just moved to a new 1 bed flat and were paying our highest rent yet, but hey, 15 minutes commute! When it became evident we were in for the long haul we started looking to move again. We ended up moving to a 3 bed house with garden in a tiny village close…

Everyone on HN who loves urban density should read things like this. Quality of life cooped up in a dense urban setting, especially with a family, is awful. There's so much space in the world, we don't need to pack ourselves in tiny urban centers near "tech hubs" at all.

Awful for you, but a lot of people love the walkability / bikeability of cities and the proximity to services, activities, and other people.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#99

Post by wollsmoth »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #83
wollsmoth wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't any meeting rooms at your office? I think every place I've been, even the startups had some kind of conference call mic setup on the table, although I don't think every place had a cam. It's possible for the "room" to join the call and those who must join over video.

But you're still in a meeting room on a video call, so why not just be on a video call if the rest of your day is spent in isolation with headphones on with all the inconveniences of office travel. What is the upside? Especially when there are open office plans with no assigned desks (as has been mentioned above - luckily, I haven't actually worked at a "non assigned desk role yet), which is f'ing dehumanizing.

Sounds like you're asking what's the upside vs wfh. I'm saying if y'all are at the office anyway, get into a room for the meeting instead of taking the call at your desks.

If you're wfh anyway, yeah just call in over video.

Re: Dreaded commute to the city is keeping offices mostly empty

#100

Post by dekhn »

For me, it's about "an office". In particular, a little room- with a door that closes, and a desk/chair, that has my name on it. Not an open office, not a breakaway room that you can squat in when things aren't crowded.

If I had a little room, I wouldn't really mind. But right now the proposition is that I come into an open office that's too noisy/distracting to get real work done, then go to a conference room (often just 1 person in a 5 person room) to talk to people elsewhere. If I had an office with a door that closed, Ic ould take all my meetings and do all my head-down work in the office building.

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