Live data from Hacker News

The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

banksimple.com

141–150 of 182 posts

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#141

In the book "The Big Short", Michael Lewis mentions how one CEO admitted to an audience that free checking accounts were simply a way of screwing over poor people for all these additional fees, like overdraft, etc. It's really because people with less money need to spend more time managing their money because they are closer to drawing down the account, and the banks are betting on this. It's basically predatory bank…

It's the exact type of behavior I would expect from a bank. From an American bank. There is no German, Dutch or French bank that does that and I doubt Spanish, Italian or Swiss banks do it. Sure, if I overdraft, I pay (serious) interest over the amount overdrawn for as long as I am overdrawn, but you aren't hit with any fine at all. In fact, I have arranged that I actually can't overdraft. Automatic bills just bounce…

More generally: from an unregulated bank. The tradeoff that came out of the Great Depression was that the government insures bank deposits, and in exchange the banks agree to be bound by rules that enforce responsibility - both fiduciary and to their communities. Over the past 20 years, the American banks have succeeded in shedding many of the regulations that used to bind them to those terms of responsibility. Not only has that resulted in more cynical and opportunistic 'service' to customers, but also it has resulted in the financial instability that led to the big crash of 2008.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#142
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice should be illegal, just like processing withdrawals before deposits is now illegal, which was also done to maximize overdraft fees (at least I'm pretty sure it's illegal now). Our government needs to make it easier to switch to a different bank. Tons of people would leave these awful banks for credit unions and such if it was easy to do. I mean it's possible to switch banks, it's a big headache though.…

This is precisely why I have USAA as my bank. I was originally going to get a Wells Fargo account, but that changed when I decided to go to uni in Florida - before the wachovia merger happened. My father decided that not being able to keep tabs on my account was a dealbreaker, so I ended up getting a USAA account. Worked out for the best, because USAA has some of the best customer service in the industry.

I would also recommend Charles Schwab.

If you open an investment account with them, and keep at least $1500 in there, you get a nice checking account -- refunds ATM fees, free rental car insurance, good customer service.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#143
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to uni, but your father keeps tabs on your account? I don't know whether it's you or him, but really, you should both be able to trust you to take good financial care of yourself. It's an ability everyone needs and that you can't learn early enough.

I wouldn't say that's completely unheard of when I went to college. If he's watching it because he doesn't trust you to manage your own money that's one thing, but there are other reasons for being able to manage an account. For instance, if the father wasn't a custodial on the account he can't deposit money in the event he needs it. My parents would have to mail me a check or pay a $25 bank transfer fee because they…

For instance, if the father wasn't a custodial on the account he can't deposit money in the event he needs it.

When did that start? I've deposited money many times into other people's accounts without problems; you don't even have to show ID -- just fill out a deposit slip with their account number and hand over cash.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#144
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the exact type of behavior I would expect from a bank. From an American bank. There is no German, Dutch or French bank that does that and I doubt Spanish, Italian or Swiss banks do it. Sure, if I overdraft, I pay (serious) interest over the amount overdrawn for as long as I am overdrawn, but you aren't hit with any fine at all. In fact, I have arranged that I actually can't overdraft. Automatic bills just bounce…

Don't forget the British banks, they seem as rotten as the Americans. (I never thought I'd miss the German banks.)

[deleted]

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#145
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who moved to the Netherlands, I can vouch for this. My fellow countrymen don't know what they're missing: * There are no ATM fees levied by another bank's ATMs. * There are no ATM fees levied by your bank for using another bank's ATMs. * There are no fees or minimum transactions for using your debit card at a business. * You are allowed to overdraft, you just pay an interest rate to the bank for the mo…

"There are no fees or minimum transactions for using your debit card at a business." isn't always true. For (small) business with not enough transactions, accepting debit cards is an expense, and below 10 euros they often charge 0.25. Nothing major though. And the big downside to all of the above? Credit card acceptance is very very low. Tourists can only purchase train tickets by credit card at Schiphol Airport. Eve…

About the charges, you're correct. I originally thought that this practice was a violation of the merchant's agreement... but I was wrong: http://www.pin.nl/en-US/Zakelijk/Pages/Veelgesteldevragen.as...

Still, it occurs infrequently.

About the credit card acceptance: Good! Most Dutch people have a healthy and rational fear of credit card debt, and the fact that you can't use your Visa to buy groceries encourages good consumer behavior.

Sad if you're a tourist, but easily solved by taking out some cash from the ATM which, on this side at least, is free! :)

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#146
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USAA banking is available to everyone. Some nicer services (deposit by phone, insurance) are for service members only. For what it's worth, my brother (Air Force) sold me on USAA after he signed up with them. I worked at Wells Fargo at the time, so I had the best accounts. I'm happy I made the switch. Also, their web interface and iOS apps are excellent. By far the best I've seen.

How does deposit by phone work?

There's an app that has you take a photo of the front and back of the check, and they accept that for deposit.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the cash advance interest differential for credit-cards, which is higher, and only paid off after all other charges are covered, rather than any sort of temporal ordering FWIW, in Canada credit card issuers are required to apply payments to whichever balances you're paying the highest interest rate on -- it's not even temporally ordered.

Are you complaining that they're required to service the more expensive (to you) debts first? Why? UK banks used to have a god racket (don't know if they still do, don't read the relevant blogs) where they'd offer 0% balance transfer cards but with expensive purchase interest. Then, any payments you made went to paying off the oldest debt first (on which you were paying 0% interest) leaving the purchases quickly gain…

No, not complaining. (It doesn't affect me anyway; I never pay any interest.) Just observing that in Canada the rules work to the advantage of consumers and the sky hasn't fallen yet.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#148
post #83

STOP USING COMMERCIAL BANKS. Sorry for the caps but it cannot be stressed enough. There is no good reason not to use a credit union - almost everyone in the USA can find one and qualify and since they are member owned they won't do nonsense like this and don't need regulation to force them to do what is morally right.

I'm curious here: what are the benefits of using a credit union over a bank? What are the drawbacks? Right now I keep 95% of my money in investment accounts (I use Interactive Brokers these days, they have reasonable fees for trades and zero bullshit, which puts them two steps ahead of any normal bank that I know of), and push the remaining stuff to a throwaway checking account @BoA as needed to cover recurring payme…

This is another funny thing that's different in the US compared to EU, your credit ratings are done backwards.

Here, if you have never had a loan or credit card, never missed a bill payment, have a steady income, then your credit history is perfect. If you want a loan or a credit card, you'll get one instantly.

I have a home mortgage, a student loan, and a credit card I rarely use, and my credit rating is slightly worse than someone who has the same income as me, but no loans or mortgages. But in the US, it would be the exact opposite, I would be the one with a great credit rating, and the other guy would have problems getting a credit card.

So weird. :-)

I might be working in the US in the future, and I'm really dreading having to deal with US banks. I will definitely look into getting an account with a credit union instead.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#149
I work for a US bank, "ING Direct". On our "checking" account (electronic payments preferred), our policy for overdrafts works like this: if you overdraw your account, we do NOT charge you an overdraft fee. Instead, we automatically turn it into a loan at typical unsecured lending rates (11.25% today: prime plus 8%). As soon as you deposit enough money to go back to a positive balance, we go back to paying interest on your balance.

I hate feeling like an advertisement for my employer, but I just don't understand why ALL banks can't work this way!

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#150
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why you shouldn't be using such a dangerous service when living check to check. Go to a bank machine, inquire about your current balance, and then extract cash to make your purchases with. Banks may be predatory with fees, but really it's your own responsibility to avoid this trap, and it's not even that hard to do. You can also join a credit union.

There are some payments which can only (or which otherwise charge some non-trivial surcharge) be made via direct-debit/automated payments. Power bills are the obvious one here, I think they couch it as a discount for online payments, and bump the baseline prices if you want to pay by cheque (by post - which you hope then arrives, and clears, and ...)

So keep enough in your account to deal with those bills. Really, you should know how much your monthly utility bills are, and budget for them.

All I'm hearing are excuses to make changing your situation someone else's responsibility.

Post reply on HN