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Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

legends.solar

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Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#151

Post by Animats »

foobiekr wrote: post #52
arcticbull wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see, your argument is that like (for instance) LendingClub, the economies of scale always favor large investors, and that this platform simply cannot get large investors onboard. That may be due to a lack of connections, or due to some other potential fundamental issues with the business model. At the end of the day if the business is sound it makes more sense to target fewer large investors - not many, smaller one…

No one in their right mind wants to build a pseudo-investment company dealing with tons of small investors in the few hundreds of dollars to few thousands of dollars range. The only thing missing here is a crypto coin. If they really have a business model that can yield 8+% annual, assuming they get a cut, then they would raise real capital and not deal with randos. They don’t.

The only thing missing here is a crypto coin.

There's a "wallet". They keep your returns until you ask for them and get them to pay out.

If you're really buying a solar panel, you're buying a depreciating asset. Someday the solar panel will wear out and your investment is gone. So the return has to cover the amount invested. An annual percentage rate is not the way to evaluate this.

What you buy does not seem to be resellable. It looks like you're stuck with it for the life of the hardware.

Who audits this thing?

This is almost exactly the classic situation in SEC vs. Howey, where investors bought trees in an orange grove. So this is probably an unregistered public offering.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#152

Post by akelly »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #59
foobiekr wrote: post #26

This is basically a variation on the SolarCity business model, but focusing on commercial properties. There is probably a business here, but not one that tries to recruit individual investors because it will only be profitable at scale, and the kind of financial backing needed to do this is available to qualified teams. The recruiting individuals thing is basically an admission that this team does not have access to…

> The recruiting individuals thing is basically an admission that this team does not have access to that kind of backing. I would assume they plan to finance the large installations and then pay off the financing by re-selling the projects to retail investors in increments mapping to approximately 1 panel. In theory they'd only need to keep enough working capital to fund installations until PTO (power turn on) at whi…

I don't want shares of a speculative solar startup, I want a safe solar investment with predictable returns. If a company goes bankrupt then shares go to zero, the assets are sold, and the proceeds split between everyone they owe money to. So structuring customer investments as a loan is safer for the investor, no?

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#153

Post by pyrale »

Havoc wrote: post #105
foobiekr wrote: post #26

This is basically a variation on the SolarCity business model, but focusing on commercial properties. There is probably a business here, but not one that tries to recruit individual investors because it will only be profitable at scale, and the kind of financial backing needed to do this is available to qualified teams. The recruiting individuals thing is basically an admission that this team does not have access to…

>The recruiting individuals thing is basically an admission that this team does not have access to that kind of backing. I don't think that is a given - crowd funding can raise significant sums these days

> I don't think that is a given - crowd funding can raise significant sums these days

Crowd funding is great as a sales vehicle (i.e. the people that invest in you will buy your product in the end). I don't remember a successful example where the crowd was purely there to invest.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#154

Post by hef19898 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #59
foobiekr wrote: post #26

This is basically a variation on the SolarCity business model, but focusing on commercial properties. There is probably a business here, but not one that tries to recruit individual investors because it will only be profitable at scale, and the kind of financial backing needed to do this is available to qualified teams. The recruiting individuals thing is basically an admission that this team does not have access to…

> The recruiting individuals thing is basically an admission that this team does not have access to that kind of backing. I would assume they plan to finance the large installations and then pay off the financing by re-selling the projects to retail investors in increments mapping to approximately 1 panel. In theory they'd only need to keep enough working capital to fund installations until PTO (power turn on) at whi…

That is a nice way for operators / investors in utility scale solar to improve their cash position. The banks backing those utility scale projects, I assume, love the idea.

On a general note, so, it seems people are coming up with lots of ideas to drop their investments on unassuming retail investors. Kind of makes sense, with potentially increasing interest rates, recovering their investments that might be affected by that sounds like a good idea.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#155

Post by jillesvangurp »

Sounds like a variation of a few companies in the UK/Europe where people jointly buy a wind mill and exploit it via some complicated constructions via their power bill. Great if it works and there are probably all sorts of benefits via subsidies and what not.

The notion of tapping into unused space (commercial roof tops) is genius. Give companies enough of an incentive and they'll happily join. Especially since the capex is basically taken care off by others. The main challenges would be related to scaling operationally and sourcing the hardware.

Smart but in the end it's just a way of owning shares with limited rights in a company. The share sales are used for capex. The capex drives the dividends (through power sold). Presumably that's a better deal than what private home owners would get. And of course the majority share holder gets their cut as well on top of service fees and what not. So, win win.

Of course the question is what happens when things don't go so well (e.g. bankruptcy). In principle the same as with any other kind of investment probably. The devil is in the details. But this kind of cooperative model works very well in other sectors. E.g. milk producers commonly pool resources and some regional banks operate like cooperatives. So, it's not a strange idea.

And this could be a great solution for people that would like to get some clean power but maybe don't have a place suitable for solar panels. Otherwise, it's a normal investment with risks and rewards. On paper, the notion of buy panels and sell power seems like it should be a straightforward one. But of course the devil is in the details with the terms and conditions. The sales pitch is great though and I could see how this would work well.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#156

Post by hef19898 »

yepnopemaybe wrote: post #48
foobiekr wrote: post #26

This is basically a variation on the SolarCity business model, but focusing on commercial properties. There is probably a business here, but not one that tries to recruit individual investors because it will only be profitable at scale, and the kind of financial backing needed to do this is available to qualified teams. The recruiting individuals thing is basically an admission that this team does not have access to…

We've lined up a number of finance partners to help facilitate transactions. Our first priority on our seed raise will be to bring some qualified finance experts in house. We've been working with accredited investors who are making 100K+ investments for entire solar facilities. We think of those transactions as our training wheels as we build out our software, financial knowledge, and design. As we evolve to a larger…

Naïve question, utility scale solar is a solved problem with lots of different financing solutions available. Why go for retail investing / crowd funding? And why does the industry need design and software knowledge it doesn't have already? and wouldn't be financial knowledge in that industry one of the core things to bring on-board from day one?

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#157

Post by IshKebab »

rossjudson wrote: post #94

I'm not interested in investing in solar power. But I wouldn't mind owning solar generating capacity that covers my family's energy needs; I don't think I need that routed to my own home. That's what the power grid is for. I've been thinking about this kind of "solar condo" or "solar co-op" for a while. City people use energy, and might want to know that their personal energy usage is positively covered by solar.

I mean that sounds a lot like investing in solar to me...

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#158

Post by ricardo81 »

GOONIMMUNE wrote: post #60
dsr_ wrote: post #51

In what ways is this better than investing in a hypothetical public utility that intends to make all its electricity from solar panels? In what ways is this worse than that?

> investing in a hypothetical public utility that intends to make all its electricity from solar panels? Is this something I can do as a retail investor? What sort of minimum investment is needed?

I haven't looked into solar panels but I have some money invested in a 'wind infrastructure fund' which perhaps is the kind of thing you'd be interested in. Market cap of £2.5bn

https://www.greencoat-ukwind.com/

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#160

Post by seunosewa »

yepnopemaybe wrote: post #71
kingcharles wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me you don't want to answer the questions without telling me you don't want to answer the questions...

Happy to answer any questions. The fact is that financial return will depend on the risk profile - which we will depend on factors like a) Will the investor take on construction risk b) Will the facility be insured c) Who is the power customer (off taker) how creditworthy are they, and what are the terms? d) Will the financing include tax equity incentives and how will they be distributed. These questions are all a m…

Looks like you're not yet ready for retail investors?
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