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Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

legends.solar

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Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#141

Post by rogerthat_au »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #38

Potentially interesting idea, but the founding team doesn't inspire a lot of confidence: https://www.legends.solar/v2-the-team One "product designer", one former art gallery manager, and one embedded engineer with a couple years of experience. Advisors include another "product designer", someone who describes themselves as a "storyteller film maker", and someone in the solar financing space. At least there's one pers…

Your latter suggestion (public corporation) exists. Check out Renew Power - they're a large developer from India. The challenge historically has been there are very few such listed developers. Most of this asset class so far has only been available to very large funds - Goldman, Walburg, etc who operate privately. That's why we entered the space too (see: www.renewables.org - only for accredited investors for now)

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#142

Post by esses »

yepnopemaybe wrote: post #116
esses wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are soliciting "indications of interest" with an estimated 7.3% yield with no justification whatsoever on the site to back it up.

That's why it's 'no commitment', but I would not set exceptions at 7.3% if I did not expect the product to be at or near that number. Our accredited investors do better, but again, that's with tax equity.

Without explaining your expectations that 7.3 number is nothing more than wishful thinking to someone that might be interested in your product. On top of that, your accredited investors have a short track record of returns and do not reflect the product you are soliciting - you admit it isn’t the same return structure. Without showing your work you are going to have a hard time convincing someone this is worthy of a commitment.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#143

Post by rogerthat_au »

spinaltap wrote: post #8

At the end of the day, it all comes down to ROI. If this had a good ROI, it probably already attracted enough investors without needing to create such a investment product. If not, then I might as well buy SP500.

The ROI exists - Goldman, Walburg, etc all have billions invested. Most solar developers are private companies. A lot of the oil giants have been investing in these developers to diversify. The issue is not whether this asset class generates a return, but rather is it available to non-institutional investors. Diversification normally preserves wealth - we tend to recommend our investors to allocate 5% of their portfolio in this asset class - its not correlated and annuity generating). Full disclaimer - I'm a co-founder at renewables.org.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#145

Post by miketery »

nitsuaeekcm wrote: post #129

You can’t join unless you’re an accredited investor. That’s because, like for many other fun similar things, the enterprise passes the Howey Test and is considered a security under the Securities Act of 1933. It’s funny how they try to disclose-away the problem at the bottom, even though they’re obviously worried about it enough to block retail investors (if a security only sells to accredited investors, you can basi…

This one is easier to get around Howey test if done right. But I can't tell from the site whether they'll do it this way.

As a buyer the key is to provide direct ownership of the panel, and a contract where I pay for a service to install / upkeep the panels, and a contract to sell electricity. In this case I am buying an asset, and my profits don't depend on greater or less input by the company.

The Howey test is: "a contract, transaction or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party."

The key for this service is that my profit is not tied to the efforts of the 3rd party, it's tied to weather, and electricity prices.

Now they may structure it, such that it is a common enterprise, in that case it will pass the Howey test, and be a security. However if they sell the asset, and include a service agreement, then it doesn't pass the test.

Edit: as an example, when you buy crypto miners from Compass, and pay them monthly to host them for you. Compass is not selling a security, they are selling as asset that generates revenue, but profit is not tied to the effort of the 3rd party.

Edit2: Nevermind their site uses language like 7.3% return, shares, and cash dividend, so indeed it's a security and passes the Howey test.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#146

Post by joshvm »

foobiekr wrote: post #52
arcticbull wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see, your argument is that like (for instance) LendingClub, the economies of scale always favor large investors, and that this platform simply cannot get large investors onboard. That may be due to a lack of connections, or due to some other potential fundamental issues with the business model. At the end of the day if the business is sound it makes more sense to target fewer large investors - not many, smaller one…

No one in their right mind wants to build a pseudo-investment company dealing with tons of small investors in the few hundreds of dollars to few thousands of dollars range. The only thing missing here is a crypto coin. If they really have a business model that can yield 8+% annual, assuming they get a cut, then they would raise real capital and not deal with randos. They don’t.

P2P lending is a thing, and was quite popular in the UK until most of the big players (e.g. Zopa) went private. You can invest a small amount, usually as low as $100 and it goes either to personal or business loans. There are companies that offer both. Usually they'll offer automatic diversification, so every $10 goes to a different investment.

Your point is valid though. These places typically lend to companies that would struggle to get loans from banks. While I've worked for legitimate places that had this problem, you do need to ask why these places need crowdfunding. A lot of them are sole proprietors who want to start e.g. a food company. So it's still up to you as an investor to understand the risk and to go through company financials before lending. With personal loans you usually get details of default rates, etc.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#147

Post by ajpgrealish »

rossjudson wrote: post #94

I'm not interested in investing in solar power. But I wouldn't mind owning solar generating capacity that covers my family's energy needs; I don't think I need that routed to my own home. That's what the power grid is for. I've been thinking about this kind of "solar condo" or "solar co-op" for a while. City people use energy, and might want to know that their personal energy usage is positively covered by solar.

Ripple Energy (https://rippleenergy.com/) in the UK are offering exactly that, but with Wind Farms. You buy into a cooperative that builds and owns the wind farm. The generated energy is sold back to your utility and taken off you energy bill. It's very much like having local renewable generation, but can be used by those like me who live in an apartment and have no way to install solar.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#148

Post by ricardo81 »

OmarIsmail wrote: post #81

I've been looking for something just like this! I find that people get really weird about solar stuff, so I'll explain why I've been looking for something like this. 1. I believe that man-made climate change is real and we should do something about it. 2. I want to limit/eliminate my own family's personal contribution to the warming of the planet for ethical and emotional reasons 3. I believe that solar is a "green"…

My thinking is much the same, though living in a higher and winder latitude I'm participating in a wind turbine co-operative (UK only though) [0]

It's not classed as an investment for tax reasons and limits you to 120% of your estimated residential consumption. It will essentially remove the wholesale cost of electricity from my bill for 25 years - so protects me from price spikes like the past 12 months.

My town has a river running through it and would love to invest in a similar hydro scheme. The LCOE for wind/solar/hydro would seemingly always beat fossil fuels, given how finite the latter is.

[0] rippleenergy.com

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#149

Post by Ekaros »

qiqitori wrote: post #128
foobiekr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one in their right mind wants to build a pseudo-investment company dealing with tons of small investors in the few hundreds of dollars to few thousands of dollars range. The only thing missing here is a crypto coin. If they really have a business model that can yield 8+% annual, assuming they get a cut, then they would raise real capital and not deal with randos. They don’t.

There's quite a few companies doing this where I live (Japan), e.g., https://change-x.jp/equipment . One important clause I saw was that the ownership of the panels automatically transfers back to the operating company after the panel's useful lifespan (defined to be 20 years). I also saw an example that originally did small investors but then at some point found a large investor, but can't remember their name at the…

Solar panel companies are in business of making the panels, wholesalers are in wholesaling business, those who install are in installation business. Each setup to be somewhat optimal in their own segment.

This just looks like extra costs for actual running of sola plant. Compared to straight up existing structures for funding.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#150

Post by Ekaros »

wang_li wrote: post #97
dpifke wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7. Can I re-sell my "panels" (shares in the facility) at a later date if I want out?

8. If I decide to can I come get my solar panel and take it to my cabin?

9. Can I halt the production of my panels in case I want to manipulate the market?
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