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Science needs more research software engineers

nature.com

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Re: Science needs more research software engineers

#51
I can only speak for how it appears in my country (Australia), but it seems like university academic staffing models in general are broken. I have 15+ years experience in service providers in Cybersecurity and SE roles. I have 2 Masters degrees with GPA7/HD averages, and love to teach. There is nothing I'd love more than to teach university level topics with a primary teaching focus, and research as a secondary. It's not about the money - they can pay me less than the Australian average wage and I'll be happy.

Over the last 2 years I've interviewed at multiple universities for Level A (Associate Lecturer) and they all had similar requirements that I've summarized below:

> you must have completed a PHD. > You must propose and perform original research, assist in upper level academics research, and publish X times per year. > you must participate in fundraising, complete your own grant applications and assist upper level academics in their fundraising & applications. > you must supervise and advise X number of postgraduate students thesis/dissertations. > you must teach both undergraduate and graduate level classes across 3 trimesters. > the position is fixed term for 12 months, rather than ongoing/permanent, with no job security and you are required to reapply each year.

Most current academics I know from Level A to Level E, say they don't particularly want to teach, and just wish they could focus on their research and fundraising to support their research. I met other applicants at networking and alumni events like myself who would like a teaching focus, rather than a research focus. There's a supply of "specialists", but an insistence on "generalists". As the fixed term aspect tends to apply to research fellows as well, the risk from the lack of security combined with the extremely low pay makes it very difficult to enter, and remain, in academia. I can afford to live on $65k a year, but the possibility that every year I may be faced with periods of unemployment and the requirement to relocate thousands of km away makes it a challenging prospect.

Re: Science needs more research software engineers

#52

Well, then science needs to do more to create an environment where software engineers would want to be an RSE. From my experience "science" does not appreciate RSEs, the compensation is bad, the freedom is bad, and you get all of the big company bureaucracy from the University. It's just a bad environment and to top it off, even if you have a PhD many will see you as "less than."

The last point is important. In my experience it's mostly about status. RSEs are always seen as inferior to researchers (research scientists) who supposedly come up with the "big ideas" while RSEs merely implement the stuff they're told to do. In reality the line is much blurrier. There can be no innovation and iteration without implementation of ideas and the RSE work is just as important. But unless this view chang…

Yes, I think RSE is often viewed as a laboratory assistant.

Re: Science needs more research software engineers

#53

I haven't seen a single competetive job posting from a research institution in 10 years of software development, despite having the desire and acumen to seek them out. I don't expect that to change. If I care enough about a thorny research problem, I'll start my own company, do my own research, and maybe hire some academics as bargain-barrel contributors to do grunt analytics work... the last thing I'll do is join a…

Getting a PhD (ie, passing an apprenticeship in how to do research in an academic setting) is a lot more strongly related to being a RSE than playing golf is to running a business.

Re: Science needs more research software engineers

#54

Well, then science needs to do more to create an environment where software engineers would want to be an RSE. From my experience "science" does not appreciate RSEs, the compensation is bad, the freedom is bad, and you get all of the big company bureaucracy from the University. It's just a bad environment and to top it off, even if you have a PhD many will see you as "less than."

There is simply no incentive for science to do proper software engineering. It does not directly produce papers or money, so nobody does it. I've seen it several times in my own career in several countries.

PhDs having their own version of the code, incompatible with the one of the Postdoc sitting opposite of them. Each slaving away at their niche project but nobody there to bring it all together. This particular university had really great code and they thought they could sell it. But they did not even use git and when I gave a presentation there about it, I was met with absolute rejection. They don't have an idea on how much effort it takes to maintain a commercial code, unit tests, customer support etc.

I'm now working at a company that produces simulation software spun out from university. Fantastic job and we do all of those things mentioned above. But obviously my paper output has been near zero even though we sometimes do cutting edge research.

I wish I had a solution to the problem as so much grant money is wasted that produces a paper or two and the corresponding software for that just goes to digital nirvana, it's a real shame.

Re: Science needs more research software engineers

#55

Science needs more "technicians" of all types, and less PhD students. Good luck making that transformation though.

> Less PhD students

PhD students are the backbone of any research project. They interact with postdocs and with undergrads in the research ecossystem. If anything, they will be required more in the years to come, not less.

Re: Science needs more research software engineers

#56

Science needs more "technicians" of all types, and less PhD students. Good luck making that transformation though.

SOX for the head of research. There are minimal consequences for producing poor quality software that creates erroneous results and often quite a few incentives for producing inaccurate results that can be blamed on a non-human entity (the software). Even SOX with an escape clause for "good faith effort" would be a game changer since what goes on now would never be considered a good faith effort by any court. SOX hasn't been anywhere near as successful at modifying behavior as it should have been but it still has caused a good bit of change and those at the top setting priorities and incentives for those below them to align with now know there's a possibility of some hefty consequences for reckless or negligent behavior.

Re: Science needs more research software engineers

#58
post #35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd encourage you to have a look at a well-known European physics research laboratory's (rhymes with Bern) library and engineering departments ( not IT, unless they've started using version control and tests since I worked there). The salary is not as bad as academia, and there's plenty of interesting stuff going on. Most of it is accessible to anyone interested in a way I've not seen outside of academia.

Certainly cool stuff but out of the question due to location. I've worked for or met with people from similar size (at least in ambition) projects. It's a tough world to break into and especially difficult to bring a different outlook to.

Have you considered US's national labs if you are in the US?

Re: Science needs more research software engineers

#59
post #24

I don't think scientists want research software engineers. PIs typically like to assume any and every role on a project, including software design. They don't like handing things off and letting people build modern, best practices software. You start talking about source code control, package managers, a language used in industry that they've never even heard of and don't care enough to learn about, etc., and you jus…

You seem to attribute certainl motivations to the PIs based on some misconceptions of the incentives and constrains for doing research. It is true that scientific software engineering is undervalued and this is one of the many issues in modern science. However attributing this to PIs wanting to do everything themselves is completely off the mark. One of the biggest issues in science today is that PIs can't do anything themselves, they, after having been trained as scientist for years, become glorified managers and administrators.

The reason why they can't and don't want to hire software engineers to build well designed software is because they don't have any money for it and it is very mismatched with their incentives. If a PI gets a grant for a project, they typically get a constrained budget to achieve the scientific goals of the project. There is usually no money (and it would not be approved) to engineer well designed software, because that doesn't produce scientific outcomes.

Now in the situations when there is budget for this, which are the super large institutional research initiatives, like e.g. CERN, they build incredibly well designed software. The SKA for example will have the largest storage cloud in the world.

If one wants better designed scientific software one needs to seriously overhaul the scientific funding process and quite significantly increase funding.

Re: Science needs more research software engineers

#60
This looks great, and I would have loved to see this when I was in the lab.

When the software industry says to you: "We will nearly triple your salary, you don't have to work weekends, and you also don't have to feed the mice on a Sunday night."

You will 100% take this deal.

I was a 10yr+ academic tool maker in biochemistry, built cutting edge microscopes, hardware, and image analysis software. My lab was successful in our field. I got some papers out of the deal. I also saw things that no human had seen before in a microscope. I worked with very interesting people from around the world. The work in academia is great. You're moving the needle, new data, new failures. These are the perks. It is also highly possible that you have complete creative control of your project. I did, and it was amazing. Custom designed UIs to streamline our experiments, derived from watching students use the system to do their work. A decathalon of software design.

Some reality: Your PI and organization will never compensate you the way the software industry will. In pay, expectations, and benefits. When you're over 30, and you don't technically have a real 401k, you are still paying your student loans that you needed to get into this field, and you're still in the same shitty apartment, something has to give.

Comparison is the thief of joy, and when you see your cohort of computer science graduates your joy will be stolen :). It's good, honest work. A short tour of duty would be useful, and can teach you the difference between splitting the atom and splitting the check.

Academia, at least in bioscience, is still very much an ivory tower. You don't have enough letters after your name to matter, and you will likely be a pet instead of a peer.

Don't stay underwater for too long. Life is short. :D

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