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Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

legends.solar

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Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#131

Post by throwaway2037 »

nitsuaeekcm wrote: post #129

You can’t join unless you’re an accredited investor. That’s because, like for many other fun similar things, the enterprise passes the Howey Test and is considered a security under the Securities Act of 1933. It’s funny how they try to disclose-away the problem at the bottom, even though they’re obviously worried about it enough to block retail investors (if a security only sells to accredited investors, you can basi…

This is an excellent point! I found the disclaimer at bottom of home page:

  No offers to sell or solicitations of an offer to buy securities or any other type of investment are being made or solicited by Legends Incorporated at this time.
More details here: https://www.legends.solar/legal/legal

I am very familiar with the Howey Test. From time to time, HN try to "hack" the Howey Test with various mental gymnastics, but always fail.

Real question: Could Legends Solar structure the investment like Cadence Real Estate? (Not a shill for them!) Cadence is basically mortgage-backed securities on multi-family properties for retail / mass affluent. They are operating for more than 10 years now. If their legal structure was not sound, I assume they would be enforced upon by SEC & friends.

I feel "direct green energy investment" for retail / mass affluent investors has huge untapped potential -- like 10s of billions of USD, maybe 100s. It makes me so frustrated that I cannot push ahead solar and wind projects with my own money. I want to transition power supply as fast as possible. Oh yeah, please add utility-sized battery installations to that list also. When I look at solar potential in India (see "Bhadla Solar Park"), it boggles my mind. There is SO much potential. Same for Middle East, North Africa, and Australia. All could use/export the electricity or convert water to hydrogen, then use/export.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#132

Post by yepnopemaybe »

nitsuaeekcm wrote: post #129

You can’t join unless you’re an accredited investor. That’s because, like for many other fun similar things, the enterprise passes the Howey Test and is considered a security under the Securities Act of 1933. It’s funny how they try to disclose-away the problem at the bottom, even though they’re obviously worried about it enough to block retail investors (if a security only sells to accredited investors, you can basi…

We are currently working with accredited investors, but we are working to launch a product for retail investors. Recent changes in crowdfunding regulation, Reg A+ in particular, make our lives a bit easier, and we have some very committed finance partners working to structure a financial product that will be appealing to retail investors.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#133

Post by throwaway2037 »

foobiekr wrote: post #52
arcticbull wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see, your argument is that like (for instance) LendingClub, the economies of scale always favor large investors, and that this platform simply cannot get large investors onboard. That may be due to a lack of connections, or due to some other potential fundamental issues with the business model. At the end of the day if the business is sound it makes more sense to target fewer large investors - not many, smaller one…

No one in their right mind wants to build a pseudo-investment company dealing with tons of small investors in the few hundreds of dollars to few thousands of dollars range. The only thing missing here is a crypto coin. If they really have a business model that can yield 8+% annual, assuming they get a cut, then they would raise real capital and not deal with randos. They don’t.

I think they only need a return on equity that is similar to residential (rental) real estate. For many places, that is 2-5% after taxes.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#134

Post by JetAlone »

nitsuaeekcm wrote: post #129

You can’t join unless you’re an accredited investor. That’s because, like for many other fun similar things, the enterprise passes the Howey Test and is considered a security under the Securities Act of 1933. It’s funny how they try to disclose-away the problem at the bottom, even though they’re obviously worried about it enough to block retail investors (if a security only sells to accredited investors, you can basi…

>Solar panels with serious levels of energy output are a substantial up-front investment.

>There may be lots of not-rich people who want to make smaller investments.

>So, let's chop them up into smaller segments to decrease that up-front cost!

>Oops, now it's a security, so you have to be rich in the first place to invest.

Talk about a Catch-22. Thanks, Roosevelt.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#135

Post by yepnopemaybe »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #131
nitsuaeekcm wrote: post #129

You can’t join unless you’re an accredited investor. That’s because, like for many other fun similar things, the enterprise passes the Howey Test and is considered a security under the Securities Act of 1933. It’s funny how they try to disclose-away the problem at the bottom, even though they’re obviously worried about it enough to block retail investors (if a security only sells to accredited investors, you can basi…

This is an excellent point! I found the disclaimer at bottom of home page: No offers to sell or solicitations of an offer to buy securities or any other type of investment are being made or solicited by Legends Incorporated at this time. More details here: https://www.legends.solar/legal/legal I am very familiar with the Howey Test. From time to time, HN try to "hack" the Howey Test with various mental gymnastics, bu…

The exact legal and financial structuring is still in progress. We will likely use a structure similar to that used by Reg A+ crowdfunding platforms like Masterworks.io. In fact, I've been in regular contact with their GC to validate this. There are other structures we could use, as well.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#136

Post by throwaway2037 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #98
OmarIsmail wrote: post #81

I've been looking for something just like this! I find that people get really weird about solar stuff, so I'll explain why I've been looking for something like this. 1. I believe that man-made climate change is real and we should do something about it. 2. I want to limit/eliminate my own family's personal contribution to the warming of the planet for ethical and emotional reasons 3. I believe that solar is a "green"…

All good motivations, but from an investment standpoint it seems everything about this would be better served by a publicly-traded company that owns and operates solar installations. They could pay dividends from the return on the installations. The way this is structured isn't great for retail investors. You're not really owning anything the way you would with a traditional investment. You're basically just giving t…

I like your idea. I wonder if we could create an ABS bond (asset backed securities) where a solar installation is securitised. Think: (David) Bowie bonds. Then we can sell the bonds to retail investors. The main problem is scalability: ABS bonds works for big investment banks because the notional is huge (100M USD+) and buyers are institutional. To me: The value to be added is two fold: (1) pipeline of reliable projects (just like sourcing assets / loans for MBS/ABS), (2) efficient buy/sell/coupon payments.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#137

Post by yepnopemaybe »

yepnopemaybe wrote: post #135
throwaway2037 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an excellent point! I found the disclaimer at bottom of home page: No offers to sell or solicitations of an offer to buy securities or any other type of investment are being made or solicited by Legends Incorporated at this time. More details here: https://www.legends.solar/legal/legal I am very familiar with the Howey Test. From time to time, HN try to "hack" the Howey Test with various mental gymnastics, bu…

The exact legal and financial structuring is still in progress. We will likely use a structure similar to that used by Reg A+ crowdfunding platforms like Masterworks.io. In fact, I've been in regular contact with their GC to validate this. There are other structures we could use, as well.

My plan is to keep things simple, to answer your other question. As little abstraction and structured securitization as possible. We want it to be as close to a one-for-one analogy for true direct equity ownership in an actual panel as we can make it.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#138

Post by yepnopemaybe »

JetAlone wrote: post #134
nitsuaeekcm wrote: post #129

You can’t join unless you’re an accredited investor. That’s because, like for many other fun similar things, the enterprise passes the Howey Test and is considered a security under the Securities Act of 1933. It’s funny how they try to disclose-away the problem at the bottom, even though they’re obviously worried about it enough to block retail investors (if a security only sells to accredited investors, you can basi…

>Solar panels with serious levels of energy output are a substantial up-front investment. >There may be lots of not-rich people who want to make smaller investments. >So, let's chop them up into smaller segments to decrease that up-front cost! >Oops, now it's a security, so you have to be rich in the first place to invest. Talk about a Catch-22. Thanks, Roosevelt.

Solar panels are fairly simple and inexpensive to install, relative to other energy sources. Best of all, they can be scaled to on-site demand since there is not a large upfront cost.

I would not say that is the problem we are solving. The problem as I see it is that most people have no idea what they actually own through their investment. We make it simple to know through great design and communication, that carries through from the financial structuring to the UI/UX, we are doing it all custom from the ground up.

We start with solar because its a pretty safe investment and people love it.

Re: Legends Solar – Buy operating solar panels on commercial solar farms

#139

Post by JetAlone »

yepnopemaybe wrote: post #138
JetAlone wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Solar panels with serious levels of energy output are a substantial up-front investment. >There may be lots of not-rich people who want to make smaller investments. >So, let's chop them up into smaller segments to decrease that up-front cost! >Oops, now it's a security, so you have to be rich in the first place to invest. Talk about a Catch-22. Thanks, Roosevelt.

Solar panels are fairly simple and inexpensive to install, relative to other energy sources. Best of all, they can be scaled to on-site demand since there is not a large upfront cost. I would not say that is the problem we are solving. The problem as I see it is that most people have no idea what they actually own through their investment. We make it simple to know through great design and communication, that carries…

My frustration comes partially due to some of my personal circumstances:

-Filthy unlanded tech scribe peasant.

-Have some savings, it is time to invest, but I don't have hundreds of thousands.

-Cannot afford land close enough to where I live (Tokyo) to fruitfully manage it.

-Due to legal reasons, there is a language barrier to the better ones among more accessible investment platforms I have found I can use.

I would love to be able to invest something like a couple thousand dollars in an endeavour such as Legends Solar. I would like to get into a real investment of some sort. Ideally without prohibitive amounts of red tape.

Thank you for your response.

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