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The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

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Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#111

Post by davidw »

Confusion wrote: post #103
steve8918 wrote: post #13

In the book "The Big Short", Michael Lewis mentions how one CEO admitted to an audience that free checking accounts were simply a way of screwing over poor people for all these additional fees, like overdraft, etc. It's really because people with less money need to spend more time managing their money because they are closer to drawing down the account, and the banks are betting on this. It's basically predatory bank…

It's the exact type of behavior I would expect from a bank. From an American bank. There is no German, Dutch or French bank that does that and I doubt Spanish, Italian or Swiss banks do it. Sure, if I overdraft, I pay (serious) interest over the amount overdrawn for as long as I am overdrawn, but you aren't hit with any fine at all. In fact, I have arranged that I actually can't overdraft. Automatic bills just bounce…

Italian banks are terrible. Lots of fees, they don't pay interest at all, and the hours are ridiculous. Most stores are open from something like 8:30/9 - 12:30, then 15:30 to 19:30. With banks it's along the lines of 8:00 - 13:00, 15:00-16:00 or something odd like that. Ours raised the interest rates on us the day before we were supposed to sign the paperwork for our mortgage.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#112

Post by rmc »

joelhaasnoot wrote: post #106
furyg3 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who moved to the Netherlands, I can vouch for this. My fellow countrymen don't know what they're missing: * There are no ATM fees levied by another bank's ATMs. * There are no ATM fees levied by your bank for using another bank's ATMs. * There are no fees or minimum transactions for using your debit card at a business. * You are allowed to overdraft, you just pay an interest rate to the bank for the mo…

"There are no fees or minimum transactions for using your debit card at a business." isn't always true. For (small) business with not enough transactions, accepting debit cards is an expense, and below 10 euros they often charge 0.25. Nothing major though. And the big downside to all of the above? Credit card acceptance is very very low. Tourists can only purchase train tickets by credit card at Schiphol Airport. Eve…

For (small) business with not enough transactions, accepting debit cards is an expense

Here in Ireland it's not uncommon for shops to insist on cash only for amounts less than €10 (except in some extrenuation circumstances (like the ATM in their shop being broken)).

Credit card acceptance is very very low.

That has definitly not been my experience. Perhaps you are thinking of chip-and-pin credit cards. Here in Ireland (& IME UK), credit cards are accepted in many, many point of sales/retailers. But they might only accept chip and pin credit cards, which I believe are uncommon the USA.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#113

Post by joelhaasnoot »

rmc wrote: post #112
joelhaasnoot wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There are no fees or minimum transactions for using your debit card at a business." isn't always true. For (small) business with not enough transactions, accepting debit cards is an expense, and below 10 euros they often charge 0.25. Nothing major though. And the big downside to all of the above? Credit card acceptance is very very low. Tourists can only purchase train tickets by credit card at Schiphol Airport. Eve…

For (small) business with not enough transactions, accepting debit cards is an expense Here in Ireland it's not uncommon for shops to insist on cash only for amounts less than €10 (except in some extrenuation circumstances (like the ATM in their shop being broken)). Credit card acceptance is very very low. That has definitly not been my experience. Perhaps you are thinking of chip-and-pin credit cards. Here in Irelan…

In the Netherlands very few stores accept credit cards, most accept just the dutch "PIN" and "Maestro" (=EMV). Not many people in the Netherlands have a credit card.

Vice-versa however, I was able to pay at WalMarts in the US with my Dutch debit card with no issues (once I hit the right button, it's confusing).

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#114

Post by Confusion »

davidw wrote: post #111
Confusion wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the exact type of behavior I would expect from a bank. From an American bank. There is no German, Dutch or French bank that does that and I doubt Spanish, Italian or Swiss banks do it. Sure, if I overdraft, I pay (serious) interest over the amount overdrawn for as long as I am overdrawn, but you aren't hit with any fine at all. In fact, I have arranged that I actually can't overdraft. Automatic bills just bounce…

Italian banks are terrible. Lots of fees, they don't pay interest at all, and the hours are ridiculous. Most stores are open from something like 8:30/9 - 12:30, then 15:30 to 19:30. With banks it's along the lines of 8:00 - 13:00, 15:00-16:00 or something odd like that. Ours raised the interest rates on us the day before we were supposed to sign the paperwork for our mortgage.

OK, the reason I doubted it is because it is very easy for anyone to open an account in a neighbouring country and profit from the better arrangements there. I know people living in Germany who haven't bothered to open a local account, because their Dutch account works just fine.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#115

Post by Confusion »

younata wrote: post #42
fletchowns wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice should be illegal, just like processing withdrawals before deposits is now illegal, which was also done to maximize overdraft fees (at least I'm pretty sure it's illegal now). Our government needs to make it easier to switch to a different bank. Tons of people would leave these awful banks for credit unions and such if it was easy to do. I mean it's possible to switch banks, it's a big headache though.…

This is precisely why I have USAA as my bank. I was originally going to get a Wells Fargo account, but that changed when I decided to go to uni in Florida - before the wachovia merger happened. My father decided that not being able to keep tabs on my account was a dealbreaker, so I ended up getting a USAA account. Worked out for the best, because USAA has some of the best customer service in the industry.

You're going to uni, but your father keeps tabs on your account? I don't know whether it's you or him, but really, you should both be able to trust you to take good financial care of yourself. It's an ability everyone needs and that you can't learn early enough.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#116

Post by paulkoer »

hop wrote: post #86

Made 2hrs after of walking out of a Wells Fargo. http://fuckwellsfargo.com

Wait ... by applying the overdraft fee aren't you effectively overdrawing your account even more? There should be an overdraft fee for that! Kinda weird they haven't figured that out yet...

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#117

Post by wlievens »

joelhaasnoot wrote: post #106
furyg3 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who moved to the Netherlands, I can vouch for this. My fellow countrymen don't know what they're missing: * There are no ATM fees levied by another bank's ATMs. * There are no ATM fees levied by your bank for using another bank's ATMs. * There are no fees or minimum transactions for using your debit card at a business. * You are allowed to overdraft, you just pay an interest rate to the bank for the mo…

"There are no fees or minimum transactions for using your debit card at a business." isn't always true. For (small) business with not enough transactions, accepting debit cards is an expense, and below 10 euros they often charge 0.25. Nothing major though. And the big downside to all of the above? Credit card acceptance is very very low. Tourists can only purchase train tickets by credit card at Schiphol Airport. Eve…

Most stores and restaurants acecpt VISA in Belgium, and our banking system works as described above.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#118

Post by davidw »

Confusion wrote: post #114
davidw wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italian banks are terrible. Lots of fees, they don't pay interest at all, and the hours are ridiculous. Most stores are open from something like 8:30/9 - 12:30, then 15:30 to 19:30. With banks it's along the lines of 8:00 - 13:00, 15:00-16:00 or something odd like that. Ours raised the interest rates on us the day before we were supposed to sign the paperwork for our mortgage.

OK, the reason I doubted it is because it is very easy for anyone to open an account in a neighbouring country and profit from the better arrangements there. I know people living in Germany who haven't bothered to open a local account, because their Dutch account works just fine.

Not all of Europe is quite so 'small scale'. It'd take me a couple of hours to drive to Slovenia, and 3 for Austria.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#119

Post by yardie »

beseku wrote: post #110
furyg3 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who moved to the Netherlands, I can vouch for this. My fellow countrymen don't know what they're missing: * There are no ATM fees levied by another bank's ATMs. * There are no ATM fees levied by your bank for using another bank's ATMs. * There are no fees or minimum transactions for using your debit card at a business. * You are allowed to overdraft, you just pay an interest rate to the bank for the mo…

Exactly this - the UK banks tried to move closer to their US cousins a number of times, but each time consumers managed to stop a lot of these charges becoming commonplace, particularly with regard to charges or ATM fees. If you want a really convoluted banking system, try Japan. Its not that you get charged for using another bank's machine, you just can't, with the ned result being that you are always on the hunt fo…

Speaking of UK banks. I had the unfortunate privilege of having to use one. My salary wasn't posted on time but all the scheduled drafts went through. A few were rejected and not only did they hit me with the overdraft fee, they also hit me with an additional fee of mailing me a letter saying they were rejected. 3 of them to the tune of 20£ each.

I believe the UK consumer watchdog organization took them to court over this and I had some of it refunded. Later, they emailed me that due to this ruling they were raising monthly account fees for everyone.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#120

Post by eru »

Confusion wrote: post #103
steve8918 wrote: post #13

In the book "The Big Short", Michael Lewis mentions how one CEO admitted to an audience that free checking accounts were simply a way of screwing over poor people for all these additional fees, like overdraft, etc. It's really because people with less money need to spend more time managing their money because they are closer to drawing down the account, and the banks are betting on this. It's basically predatory bank…

It's the exact type of behavior I would expect from a bank. From an American bank. There is no German, Dutch or French bank that does that and I doubt Spanish, Italian or Swiss banks do it. Sure, if I overdraft, I pay (serious) interest over the amount overdrawn for as long as I am overdrawn, but you aren't hit with any fine at all. In fact, I have arranged that I actually can't overdraft. Automatic bills just bounce…

Don't forget the British banks, they seem as rotten as the Americans.

(I never thought I'd miss the German banks.)

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