Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia? • Hacker News Board

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#141

Post by cwmoreiras » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:04 PM UTC

JoeJonathan wrote: post #105

lvl102 wrote: post #87

It’s difficult for me to feel bad for these institutions. They jacked up tuitions and caused an entire generation of people to carry lifetime of crippling debt.

It's not like universities are just lining their pockets. I'm a humanities professor at a small liberal arts college with a high tuition, and we struggle to pay professors fair wages (when compared to peer institutions, which doesn't even account for differences in cost of living, and we're in an HCOL city). I do not fully understand the economics of higher education—they're complex and often opaque—but a few things…

Normally I wouldn't nitpick, but since you posted that 39% as a hard number, how much of the 61% remaining (the "aid") takes the form of grants, and how much of it is loans?

I disagree with most financial aid and admissions offices, who seem to regard loans as "aid"

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#142

Post by seydor » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

jpeloquin wrote: post #138

seydor wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these things can be done by anyone yet academia gatekeeps the academic creds for itself. E.g. anyone can do machine learning research, but you can't publish in a journal without being affiliated to a university

Start your own journal? It doesn't necessarily matter that citations to it won't be tracked in Scopus or whatever when it's first launched. Even the gatekept academic journals aren't automatically accepted into citation databases and academic search engines, it usually takes several years after they're launched to be fully accepted. Or discard the journal framework entirely—as long as people who are interested in the…

yeah machine learning was not the best example because it does not depend on journal prestige, but pretty much everything else is

the publication venue matters very much in most fields. it is rare exception when something is published elsewhere. the bulk of papers need to make it to goodish journals to be ever seen and considered when deciding about funding. Open access misses the target because it only replaces the publishing part, not the prestige part.

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#143

Post by huitzitziltzin » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

For me personally yes it has.

I’m leaving my academic position for industry this year. (Technically I’m “on leave” for a year but I am not going to come back barring something insane happening.)

For anyone else in my shoes considering the move, I will say that while money isn’t everything I am going to very nearly quadruple my salary by going into industry.

I know I’ll have a boss and more boring meetings than I have now, but I am not convinced that I’m going to work more hours.

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#144

Post by jdshaffer » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:15 PM UTC

meling wrote: post #101

Prof. from Norway here. While it sounds like the situation in the US and UK is worse than our own, I’m seriously considering moving to industry after 20 years in academia. Mainly fed up by ever growing admin, and stupid financial oversight regulations, and the general workload… and many other things that isn’t wise to complain about publicly.

Associate Professor from Japan... and I can relate completely. Love teaching, love my students, but get totally burnt out on admin, committees, "extra" duties and the like. Makes moving to another field look very tempting at times.

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#145

Post by arghnoname » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:16 PM UTC

TSiege wrote: post #85

arghnoname wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the training and a reasonable chance at an acceptable offer if I went on the academic job market, but I bailed out and went into industry instead of trying my hand on it. To my mind, it doesn't make sense to try to break into and establish yourself in such a competitive field with all of the problems of academia. I also knew plenty of more senior professors that left the field, which didn't encourage me to back…

Interesting. Are you in STEM or some other field? As an outsider I'm curious if this is specific to some fields or the same across academia

I was CS

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#146

Post by jcranmer » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:17 PM UTC

adamsmith143 wrote: post #47

joshgroban wrote: post #21

This is actually really scary. As American universities become less powerful I shudder to think of what kind of radical politics and cultural narratives will sweep the nation.

Isn't this exactly the opposite of the current state? That the overwhelming power of Universities in the US is what spreads cultural and political movements? I think you could argue that the entire Woke enterprise is centered on Universities particularly elite ones.

It is my understanding that the "woke" movement in universities is generally driven by the students and not the faculty. Now I personally never saw any of this shit when I was in college, but from what I've read of various newspaper stories, it seems that almost all of the outrage-du-jour stories generally start with the students complaining about something, not the faculty or administration doing something reprehensible.

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#147

Post by bingohbangoh » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:21 PM UTC

cehrlich wrote: post #97

nonrandomstring wrote: post #18

Universities are in trouble. I know of three that are unable to hire for senior and middle positions. They've been advertising for months. Here (UK), Brexit is partly to blame, along with post Cov19 fatigue, and aging population with many retiring. As I've said in other comments, the main problem is that academia has become hideously corrupted by "professional management" values leading to de-skilling as good people…

I don't know about other parts of the UK, but I interviewed for some (senior) lecturer positions last year and the salary was a joke by London standards. I'm not comparing to lofty SWE salaries here, but just compared to what it takes to make a decent living in London.

More broadly, the general job market -- "there are so many available!" -- seems to be cities bit by higher than expected CoL increases. Academia seems to be the same. Nobody wants to earn $20/hr at Starbucks if I have to pay $2k/mo for rent.

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#148

Post by tprice7 » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:23 PM UTC

freyr wrote: post #136

seydor wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these things can be done by anyone yet academia gatekeeps the academic creds for itself. E.g. anyone can do machine learning research, but you can't publish in a journal without being affiliated to a university

That’s not true at all. Papers come from industry all the time. I know of independent researchers who make up an LLC name and use that as their affiliation. Most people who publish in journals are affiliated with academia simply because that’s where the vast majority of basic research happens.

I've published a couple of papers in decent pure math journals with no affiliation at all. It didn't cause any issues.

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#149

Post by gatvol » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:25 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #146

adamsmith143 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this exactly the opposite of the current state? That the overwhelming power of Universities in the US is what spreads cultural and political movements? I think you could argue that the entire Woke enterprise is centered on Universities particularly elite ones.

It is my understanding that the "woke" movement in universities is generally driven by the students and not the faculty . Now I personally never saw any of this shit when I was in college, but from what I've read of various newspaper stories, it seems that almost all of the outrage-du-jour stories generally start with the students complaining about something, not the faculty or administration doing something reprehen…

You should check out this Series on the US Educational establishment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs3vSwsHWbc

Re: Has the ‘great resignation’ hit academia?

#150

Post by aidenn0 » Tue, May 31, 2022, 11:32 PM UTC

blululu wrote: post #36

mikewarot wrote: post #9

Here in the US, I expect a lot of K-12 teachers to be leaving the field. The additional demands created by Covid were the last straw for many. Their employment contracts are such that they have to give months of notice, so I expect all to be quiet until August, then panic everywhere as slots can't be filled.

(Public School) Teacher pay is largely structured to encourage retention. The salary is pretty lousy if you only do it for 2 years, but if you stick around for 40 years it is a well paying job in most States. The pay increases for seniority and the compounding interest of pensions add up to a very good salary. There is also the other problem that a lot of states require an education degree to teach in public schools…

I personally know multiple public school teachers who left for private schools with a pay cut because of how much they disliked their public school jobs.