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The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

banksimple.com

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Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#21

Post by mkr-hn »

kstenerud wrote: post #18
kstenerud wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why you shouldn't be using such a dangerous service when living check to check. Go to a bank machine, inquire about your current balance, and then extract cash to make your purchases with. Banks may be predatory with fees, but really it's your own responsibility to avoid this trap, and it's not even that hard to do. You can also join a credit union.

Downvote all you like, but so long as your response to getting screwed is "I always get screwed by these evil people" rather than "Shit, they got me. I'm going to take steps to protect myself.", you'll forever be a victim. I used to suffer the same mentality until I finally woke up and started to take responsibility for my own future. Things happen to victims. Victors make things happen.

You're being downvoted because it looks like you're blaming the victims. Everyone would seek out good information for making decisions in a perfect world. But we don't live in that world. Sometimes it's necessary to protect people from the worst tendencies of corporations.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#22

Post by tsotha »

Once upon a time, banks made money by charging interest on loans.

Banks don't have to offer checking accounts to make money charging interest on loans. I suspect what will happen if the government starts to get into the business of deciding what fees ought to be charged for this or that the banks will start charging a flat fee to have an account.

Once again "advocates" for the poor will end up screwing poor people.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#23

Post by andrewljohnson »

I agree that banks are predatory, but the fact that people can't keep ~$500 in their bank account indicates they are spending more than they are earning. When someone can't keep an extremely small amount of cash on hand at all times. it doesn't mean they are living paycheck to paycheck and just netting zero - it means they are accruing debt every cycle, and then struggling to stay cash flow positive in any way necessary.

So, if you ask me, the solution to America's woes in this regard is not to eliminate overdraft fees. That's just addressing a symptom. The real solution is a living wage for all Americans, or some other way to prevent poor people from sinking into debt little by little. Then banks wouldn't construct their systems like this, because it just wouldn't work.

Instead of patching bandaids onto the financial system, we need to lift people up from poverty directly. Want to solve overdrafts? Tax the rich and give the money to the poor.

As for BankSimple, that's nice marketing and all, but let's see if BankSimple becomes the bank of the poor. Can anyone get a free bank account with BankSimple and keep $0-$500 in it?

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#24

Post by jeffool »

kstenerud wrote: post #8
jeffool wrote: post #2

I had an annoying run in with them. It happened because I didn't know Suntrust didn't take out charges in the order they occurred. They take out the largest charge first, and each charge as they decrease in value. One day I had had a few small charges, and realizing it was a week intl payday, I figured I'd run to the grocery store and make a large precise of groceries, to ensure I had food taken care of, expecting to…

Which is why you shouldn't be using such a dangerous service when living check to check. Go to a bank machine, inquire about your current balance, and then extract cash to make your purchases with. Banks may be predatory with fees, but really it's your own responsibility to avoid this trap, and it's not even that hard to do. You can also join a credit union.

I'm not sure why people are downvoting you... I get what you're saying and don't completely disagree.

But I think it's worth noting, because I'm not sure if I got the point across: I was intending to overdraft on the final, large fee. The insane overdraft fees only affected me in an unexpected way because they go out of their was to also screw people on the order of withdrawals.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#25

Post by impendia »

jc4p wrote: post #15
impendia wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me that you called them, or walked into the nearest branch, and demanded that they reverse all but one of the charges, and, either (1) They agreed, or (2) You promptly closed your account.

I had a similar situation happen at Bank of America except in my situation I wasn't relying on a single overdraft, I wasn't expecting any. They put in a transfer from my savings to my checking a day after they said it would go through and did the exact same sorting of large purchases to charge my multiple fees. It took me two and a half hours to get the charges reversed, 30 minutes of which were spent in the nearest…

+1, thanks for sharing.

Should I move, I now know two banks I should not dream of doing business with.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#26

Post by agosnell »

jeffool wrote: post #2

I had an annoying run in with them. It happened because I didn't know Suntrust didn't take out charges in the order they occurred. They take out the largest charge first, and each charge as they decrease in value. One day I had had a few small charges, and realizing it was a week intl payday, I figured I'd run to the grocery store and make a large precise of groceries, to ensure I had food taken care of, expecting to…

I had a bizarre overdraft charge from Suntrust, as well (although I got them to reverse it.) It happened this summer when I was closing my checking account with them.

The closing date was set to the day that the last scheduled charge was going to hit, and so they gave me my cashier's check with all the funds except the $25 for the last scheduled charge. But there was also going to be a credit for $0.10 in interest on the account (which was necessary to pay the $25 charge.)

Apparently the system was able to calculate all of that properly so that the debit matched up to the funds left in the account on the closing date, but on that day the debit was processed before the 10-cent credit. So they wanted to charge me $75 in fees because of a 10-cent overdraft that their system created!

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#27

Post by ajaimk »

andrewljohnson wrote: post #23

I agree that banks are predatory, but the fact that people can't keep ~$500 in their bank account indicates they are spending more than they are earning. When someone can't keep an extremely small amount of cash on hand at all times. it doesn't mean they are living paycheck to paycheck and just netting zero - it means they are accruing debt every cycle, and then struggling to stay cash flow positive in any way necess…

I would like to disagree regarding the fact that over-draft fees are the realm of the poor. I've had the misfortune of being charged overdraft fees twice and both times were because I accidentally swiped my debit card and then realized I'd overspent. Both times, I wasn't spending more than I had. I had a substantial amount of cash in a separate saving account as well as my investment account. It was just my checking account that was low of cash.

As for BankSimple becoming the bank of the poor, I feel that it wouldn't be that big an issue. They site focuses on integrating technology for pretty much everything you need to do. Check depositing is by smartphone. There are no branches - everything is online/phone based. This will probably deter the poor to sign-up since people who have < $500 balance on their bank account probably aren't going about with a smartphone and a data plan.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#28

Post by kstenerud »

mkr-hn wrote: post #21
kstenerud wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvote all you like, but so long as your response to getting screwed is "I always get screwed by these evil people" rather than "Shit, they got me. I'm going to take steps to protect myself.", you'll forever be a victim. I used to suffer the same mentality until I finally woke up and started to take responsibility for my own future. Things happen to victims. Victors make things happen.

You're being downvoted because it looks like you're blaming the victims. Everyone would seek out good information for making decisions in a perfect world. But we don't live in that world. Sometimes it's necessary to protect people from the worst tendencies of corporations.

The fact that banks collected 38 BILLION from customers in overdraft fees would seem to suggest that people AREN'T choosing to change their habits, even on such a simple thing as this.

Yes, by all means, make the banks stop gouging people like that (especially maximizing fee collection by ordering largest-to-smallest). But really, once you've suffered overdraft fees once, there's no excuse for suffering it again and again; especially not when there's such a simple solution as cash. As George W. Bush once said, "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — You can't get fooled again."

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#29

Post by kstenerud »

jeffool wrote: post #24
kstenerud wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why you shouldn't be using such a dangerous service when living check to check. Go to a bank machine, inquire about your current balance, and then extract cash to make your purchases with. Banks may be predatory with fees, but really it's your own responsibility to avoid this trap, and it's not even that hard to do. You can also join a credit union.

I'm not sure why people are downvoting you... I get what you're saying and don't completely disagree. But I think it's worth noting, because I'm not sure if I got the point across: I was intending to overdraft on the final, large fee. The insane overdraft fees only affected me in an unexpected way because they go out of their was to also screw people on the order of withdrawals.

Yes, that's definitely evil. Mind you, you're not falling victim to that ploy again and again. Millions of others are.

Re: The $36 soda: Overdrafting in America

#30

Post by andrewljohnson »

ajaimk wrote: post #27
andrewljohnson wrote: post #23

I agree that banks are predatory, but the fact that people can't keep ~$500 in their bank account indicates they are spending more than they are earning. When someone can't keep an extremely small amount of cash on hand at all times. it doesn't mean they are living paycheck to paycheck and just netting zero - it means they are accruing debt every cycle, and then struggling to stay cash flow positive in any way necess…

I would like to disagree regarding the fact that over-draft fees are the realm of the poor. I've had the misfortune of being charged overdraft fees twice and both times were because I accidentally swiped my debit card and then realized I'd overspent. Both times, I wasn't spending more than I had. I had a substantial amount of cash in a separate saving account as well as my investment account. It was just my checking…

I would rather depend on the market to correct the problem for people like you. There are many banks that will draft your Savings account if you overdraft your Checking account. Choose a new bank, and keep the government out of it.

It only becomes a regulatory issue because it is catastrophic for poor people. But once again, it's just a bandaid regulation if you make the practice illegal, because poor people will remain poor.

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