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Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

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Re: Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

#51

Post by zero_shift »

lopatin wrote: post #32

The article starts off with an outdated take on the space: "We all know the meme: by the time you’ve learned one front-end technology, another three have just been released. Also, that one you just learned? It’s deprecated." Maybe it's because the article is 4 years old. I just don't think it's true anymore. Ok there's React and Vue and others, but that's fine. It's basically the same tech, but they have DX/cosmetic…

I'm the author and I agree. Things have slowed down and matured. The "JS moves too fast" meme is well out of date, and in fact I wrote a comment here a few hours ago bemoaning it

Re: Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

#53

Post by hkon »

holoduke wrote: post #33
moonchrome wrote: post #15

Saying React support libraries are at fault here is not fair - React basically reimagined itself over the years and went from OO and class based components to hooks and functions. The fact that you can still do OO isn't really helping it since it adds to the complexity of things you need to learn to grasp the ecosystem. But that's honestly missing the forest for the trees - JavaScript itself went from asynchronous ca…

I don't know one single UI/UX development environment which is elegant and nice. From Android to iOS to Linux to Linux and Windows to browser UI kits. They are all complex and require constant searching for answers. The libraries are very big and require a complex tooling setup. You can never be an expert in all of them. At least not me.

I think WPF is nice and elegant. Although complex.

Re: Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

#54

Post by zero_shift »

I'm the author of this piece. I no longer think front-end suffers the instability people accuse it of.

I think there are a lot of _vendors_ trying to usher in a revolution around their particular products - there's a lot of VC funding in JavaScript tooling nowadays - but that's a different problem.

Re: Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

#55

Post by nicoburns »

darepublic wrote: post #25
nicoburns wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that's all ignorable. If you want to standard React with classes, redux, npm and webpack like it's 2017 then you absolutely can, and it's still a maintained and supported solution. That's very different to say the evolution from JQuery to Backbone to AngularJS to React where you ended up being on an increasingly unsupported platform if you didn't upgrade.

It's not really ignorable, these frameworks come ready made with converts seeking to spread the good news to every codebase they find. Understanding, let alone improving, legacy code is a total waste of their awesome powers. It's raze the city and build paradise from scratch. Using shiny new framework (tm).

That's what tech leads are for. To be the person with experience and judgement who has the authority to set the rules for the rest of the team on these kind of questions. If you're having problems with this I'd suggest you have more of a hiring problem than a framework problem.

Re: Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

#56

Post by pojzon »

Frontend is unstable because it attracts ppl whose attention span is often lower than the one of a goldfish.

Every JS frontend dev I met was speedrunning trying to prove himself by "inventing something new" which in fact was already a state of art.

The amount of rehashing and reinventing the wheel with new catchy names in the field is staggering.

TBH, if the field wants to improve -> its time to ditch JavaScript and force Browsers to move to something that makes more sense.

Re: Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

#57

Post by [deleted] »

danenania wrote: post #42

A lot of it is that UI programming is just difficult and inherently complex. Expectations of users are very high and always shifting. Browsers/consumer OSes are constantly moving targets. Mistakes and bugs, even small ones, stand out in a glaring way, so there’s low forgiveness. There are more code paths and they’re harder to test. All that means that unless you want to miss your deadline by a year or leave a bad imp…

[deleted]

Re: Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

#58

Post by pljung »

zero_shift wrote: post #54

I'm the author of this piece. I no longer think front-end suffers the instability people accuse it of. I think there are a lot of _vendors_ trying to usher in a revolution around their particular products - there's a lot of VC funding in JavaScript tooling nowadays - but that's a different problem.

I enjoyed reading your article, thanks for writing it. I think your recommendation to new devs to focus on Next.js in 2018 (!) was prescient.

> I no longer think front-end suffers the instability people accuse it of.

Do you mind elaborating why you believe this is the case?

Re: Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

#59

Post by avens19 »

hkon wrote: post #53
holoduke wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know one single UI/UX development environment which is elegant and nice. From Android to iOS to Linux to Linux and Windows to browser UI kits. They are all complex and require constant searching for answers. The libraries are very big and require a complex tooling setup. You can never be an expert in all of them. At least not me.

I think WPF is nice and elegant. Although complex.

Was going to reply with WPF. The best I've used for UX dev

Re: Why is front-end development so unstable? (2018)

#60

Post by daenz »

danenania wrote: post #42

A lot of it is that UI programming is just difficult and inherently complex. Expectations of users are very high and always shifting. Browsers/consumer OSes are constantly moving targets. Mistakes and bugs, even small ones, stand out in a glaring way, so there’s low forgiveness. There are more code paths and they’re harder to test. All that means that unless you want to miss your deadline by a year or leave a bad imp…

>anything to avoid admitting the pixel pushers are solving seriously tough problems too :)

That's not how I view it, as a SRE/BE-SWE who has done substantial visual/FE work. From my perspective, the majority of problems in FE are due to extremely poor libraries and standards, bolstered by a community where copying and pasting large chunks of unknown code is acceptable. Yes, there are "seriously tough problems" with trying to develop in that world, but they are of a different world than most BE problems, from my experience. So they feel comparably difficult, but for very different reasons.

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