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Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

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Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#251

Post by GuB-42 »

javajosh wrote: post #79

Am I the only one who looks at these projects with a combination of awe and apathy and jealousy? I do software, not hardware, and I like knowing how things work. When an expert in a different field glances at a PCB and identifies components, their purpose, by sight, and then rummages around a loose parts bin to go deeper, it dawns on me: this is someone's life. The same way I've been swimming in (application) softwar…

I think you have the right mindset, you don't need that much to start hacking digital electronics. Analog is harder for programmers because there is less skill overlap but simple hacks can't be that hard if you are willing to do it.

What always frustrated me with electronics was material considerations. You need all sorts of stuff, like a good soldering iron, oscilloscope, hot air station, magnifying glass/microscope, all sorts of wires, basic components, lab power supply, multimeters, probes, prototyping boards, etc... For programming, you just need a computer, but for electronics, you also need one.

It is not just expensive, in fact it is not that expensive for a full startup kit, thank you China. But what you also need is space, if you don't have a dedicated room for your workshop (i.e. not your bedroom or living room) it is going to be really annoying real quick. You need a bench to put all your stuff, and also enough space to store all the crap you will either repair or cannibalize part from. It also makes moving more difficult.

While it is not an absolute necessity, and there are things like hackerspaces, but there is a barrier that is not present when you are just working with computers.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#252

Post by kortex »

javajosh wrote: post #79

Am I the only one who looks at these projects with a combination of awe and apathy and jealousy? I do software, not hardware, and I like knowing how things work. When an expert in a different field glances at a PCB and identifies components, their purpose, by sight, and then rummages around a loose parts bin to go deeper, it dawns on me: this is someone's life. The same way I've been swimming in (application) softwar…

I was in the same spot when I met this brilliant hardware hacker at this hackerspace who had no formal EE degree but could design circuits in his sleep.

"How do you do it?"

"I read data sheets and a lot of wikipedia".

I already spend tons of time on wiki, so I started reading data sheets. And he was absolutely right, datasheets for components are often chock full of information on how to use them, often with recipe books for circuits that use them.

It's kinda bland and tedious but highly informative.

I think there is a bit more that goes into that (in particular a willingness to fry stuff, that's unavoidable in hardware, and MOUNTAINS of patience), but like software, it's pretty easy in today's day and age to teach yourself hardware stuff.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#253

Post by dylan604 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #63
dylan604 wrote: post #44

ohmuhgawd! Until now, I had never seen this "tech". It is so obviously the ink jet of washers. why on earth would this seem like a good idea to anyone other than the manufacturer knowing the ink jet games that could be played. as a consumer why would this ever sound like a good enough idea to actually purchase?

> as a consumer why would this ever sound like a good enough idea to actually purchase? Because as far as I know, there's no competing small sized kitchen-countertop dishwasher; that said, there's enough money on HN and its investors to start a company that does the same thing without the DRM and custom cartridges.

But isn't in the HN investor types that push startups to do things exactly like this to monetize quicker so they can get their ROI sooner?

Startup: We have a product/service that we can offer that will make money.

Investor: If you collect/sell data, sell ads, etc, you can make more money.

Startup: We don't want to go down that path.

Investor: I want my money NOW!

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#254

Post by tyingq »

GuB-42 wrote: post #251
javajosh wrote: post #79

Am I the only one who looks at these projects with a combination of awe and apathy and jealousy? I do software, not hardware, and I like knowing how things work. When an expert in a different field glances at a PCB and identifies components, their purpose, by sight, and then rummages around a loose parts bin to go deeper, it dawns on me: this is someone's life. The same way I've been swimming in (application) softwar…

I think you have the right mindset, you don't need that much to start hacking digital electronics. Analog is harder for programmers because there is less skill overlap but simple hacks can't be that hard if you are willing to do it. What always frustrated me with electronics was material considerations. You need all sorts of stuff, like a good soldering iron, oscilloscope, hot air station, magnifying glass/microscope…

>It is not just expensive, in fact it is not that expensive for a full startup kit, thank you China.

It is amazing how much more accessible it is these days. An oscilloscope or signal generator (even a used one) in the 80's and 90's, was a lot of money. There's also a lot of multi-purpose test equipment now.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#255

Post by ikurei »

edzillion wrote: post #235
ikurei wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knobs in the car and on appliances. I want knobs in my car, but I specially want no GPS tracking, no connection to the internet. My not-that-old dead-dinosaur-powered car doesn't have it, but I'd like to switch to an electric car in the next few years and I'm fearing it. Will anyone build an electric but dumb car? I know some of the earlier electrics were dumb (in this desirable sense) but they also had significat…

Well if you're in the EU then no, unless you can overturn the legislation. > The Background: In 2019, the European Commission and the European Council jointly approved a regulation that will require new safety measures in motor vehicles starting July 2022, including the installation of so-called "Event Data Recorders," a device similar to "black boxes" in aircrafts. From what I heard the car company has access to thi…

Thank you, I didn't know about this. I'll have a read but at first sight I wonder if this Event Recorder couldn't just work offline like an airplane's black box; would that just be super expensive?

My car recording what happens for accidents doesn't sound awful. It could even record my last 30 minutes of locations, all you would need to analyze a crash.

It recording my locations long-term, and specially sending them somewhere, sucks.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#256

Post by jahewson »

tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

Repairability is great but it does often come at the cost of efficiency. I found this to be the case with my washer. You can end up spending so much extra on electricity that you could have replaced the washer anyway.

This was also the case with my subcompact car. It needed a $400 repair but the entire powertrain is integrated so you have to spend $4000 in labor disassembling and reassembling it.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#257

Post by ac29 »

dkurth wrote: post #179
ben-schaaf wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you perhaps using tabs? Dishwashers need detergent in the rinse cycle, otherwise they don't rinse well, and tabs don't let you do that. I've had friends who have always pre-rinsed because of wrong dishwasher use. Once they switched to powder and put some in the rinse cycle their dishes don't need pre-rinsing. See https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04

Thank you, I will definitely watch this. We have tried pre-wash detergent, tabs, liquid soap, powder detergents, in various combinations. There may be something unusual wrong with our dishwasher. Although we clean its filter regularly, sometimes a kind of brown slime forms along the walls and around the filter, and I have to give it a deeper cleaning. Bosch had no idea what this was! I'm curious if anyone else has ex…

That almost sounds like your washer isnt using hot water. It would explain the poor cleaning performance and the weird growth in the filter.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#258

Post by entropyie »

throwxxxaway wrote: post #32
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

I advise you to go visit a Stasi museum in Germany sometime, look at what they were able to do with paper documents and film/tape.

Now imagine what they could do with today's telemetry obsessed economy.

When I was in my 20s I thought democracy was a given... "getting old" might just mean you've been alive long enough to realise that democracy is fragile and the shit sometimes hits the fan... We are one misguided vote away from handing over the ultimate panopticon to a malevolent government, and we will never be able to organise a resistance to win power back, because it will be snuffed out in its infancy .

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#260

Post by benhurmarcel »

shaman1 wrote: post #177

Why buy such a thing in the first place? It's 300e and for that money you can buy a full sized one. I'm seeing similar priced mini dishwashers on amazon. As a sensible cosnumer you should have considered buying something standard and invest you time in something else. If they would sell the dishwashers and 1/2 price and rely on recurrent income from detergent that's a different story but in this case I see no really…

The entire reason why this category of small dishwashers exist is because some people don’t have space for a full sized one.
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