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Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

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Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#221

Post by layer8 »

javajosh wrote: post #75
Waterluvian wrote: post #69

Wow. So I'm watching the Techmoan review and it's just amazing. You've got this pretty awesome product.... up until you can clearly see the business types shoving their grubby hands in the way of UX and good engineering. Oh no no no. We can't just sell a product. We need recurring revenue. So we'll make DRM proprietary detergent pods that require electronics in each one. Ah, but people will reject that because they k…

Devil's advocate: the only reason the product is so nice is because the grubby handed business types could raise the money by promising MRR to the investors. Reverse devil's advocate: and this is why hacking is so essential, so that some of us get to have our cake (meticulously and expensively designed stuff) and eat it too (opt out of MRR). Although this does create a new kind of 1%, but its one based on merit so it…

There are a lot of similar mini dishwashers that don’t have that business model and use regular detergent. This is more like a lifestyle product, designed by a French startup rather than a Chinese manufacturer.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#222

Post by squarefoot »

Great project and writeup; just one more example why we should always be cautious about "smart" devices, for that smartness nearly always aimed at eliminating customers choices.

I wonder what does the device electronics do beyond checking for the original cassette and its eeprom; it doesnt seem it would have to do anything more complex than opening water, and detergent valves/pumps for a certain time while keeping the right temperature; nothing that even the simplest uC and couldn't do; a further development could involve probing all signals at sensors and actuators during normal operation, then getting rid of the old electronic to allow the device taking detergents directly from the tanks, so resetting the cassette eeprom wouldn't be needed anymore because there would be no need to insert one. This of course would invalidate the warranty, but for some of us that is a plus point:)

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#223

Post by tzs »

lbotos wrote: post #99
throwxxxaway wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

Maybe? My microwave has something like 20 buttons, I really wish it had two knobs: - Time - Power Hell, print a guide on the inside of the door on how to adjust power for defrosting or whatever. I rarely ever press more than :30 button, and changing power is more annoying than it should be. https://ellis.fyi/tag/knobs/

Some of the fancy microwave features can actually be useful though.

The "sensor cook" on mine does a really great job with potatoes for example. They come out about as good with that as they do when I bake them in the toaster oven or regular oven using a thermometer to determine the cooking time, but the microwave is a lot faster and less effort.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#224

Post by Beltalowda »

lbotos wrote: post #99
throwxxxaway wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

Maybe? My microwave has something like 20 buttons, I really wish it had two knobs: - Time - Power Hell, print a guide on the inside of the door on how to adjust power for defrosting or whatever. I rarely ever press more than :30 button, and changing power is more annoying than it should be. https://ellis.fyi/tag/knobs/

The other day I accidentally grilled my instant meal because I selected the wavy grill icon instead of the wavy microwave icon on my combi-oven. Molten plastic everywhere :-/ It does have a knob for selecting the time though.

I get that icons are easier because you don't need to translate things for every country, but surely it can't be that much effort or expensive? My washing machine has text in Dutch and French, and it was one of the cheaper options.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#225

Post by dj_mc_merlin »

dgb23 wrote: post #41

A funny quote if you put on your layman's glasses: > It's simply a 24C02 EEPROM with 4.7K pull-ups on I2C lines, a bypass cap, and some diodes, probably for reverse-insertion protection.

We do the same, right? Oh, it's simply routed to by a reverse-proxy nginx behind a round-robin load balancer with a long deregistration delay, probably to let the application shut down gracefully. If I try to forget for a second.. what the fuck did I just say?

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#226

Post by OJFord »

nagisa wrote: post #204
OJFord wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> get the water running hot before starting the machine Interesting if this is a US difference - but here (in the UK) at least dishwashers (usually? I suppose I don't want to claim to speak for 100%) only have a cold water inlet; they do their own heating.

This depends on the manufacturer. Some manufacturers make dishwashers that can utilize both hot and cold water and others only work with cold or hot water. As an example Frigidaire, GE, KitchenAid, Whirlpool will only work with hot water; Samsung, Ikea, Beko will only work with cold water; and Bosch, Miele, Electrolux, LG will work with either.

Interesting, I don't think it does here other than extreme minority of cases - because it's just not standard plumbing. You typically have a washing machine & dishwasher hookup & waste under the sink; it's pretty standardised and it's on cold.

> As an example Frigidaire, GE, KitchenAid, Whirlpool will only work with hot water

Yeah, afaik without actually looking into it, of those only Whirlpool is distributed here (KitchenAid stuff yes for sure, but not I think dishwashers) and as above I'm pretty sure they must be different models, just like LH/RH driver cars.

Of course you can import whatever you want, but then you should probably expect to deal with some such plumbing (and potentially electrical, at very least changing the plug) oddities.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#227

Post by thisisjasononhn »

This was a fantastic read! The Bob seems like a very cool device for those in specific situations (small apartment, van-life, etc).

I'm wondering if anyone has recommendations for similar write-ups, whether tech related or anything else really? I was thoroughly engaged with this in a way I can't seem to get with books or many other articles and written documentation.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#228

Post by hulitu »

marcinzm wrote: post #59
paskozdilar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noise pollution is my number one. There is simply no way to escape it living in the city, and there are no job opportunities for software engineers on the countryside (not that it's perfect on the countryside either - given all the motor-based tractors, chainsaws, lawnmowers, leafblowers...). I hate it and it's driving me crazy and all I want is peace and quiet, but apparently, that's too much to ask and I'm spoiled…

I mean with the growth of renewable energy, satellite internet and WFH you can work from the middle of the woods (and there's actually many woods out there still). All of that thanks to ever progressing technology.

In theory, yes. In practice it is a bit mote difficult.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#230

Post by lozenge »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #64
Aardwolf wrote: post #45

> No need to manually measure and add detergent each wash, very convenient! No difference between adding a dishwasher tablet in the detergent holder of a regular machine. In both cases you're manually adding 1 item into the machine. Except in the case of the dishwasher tablet, it comes from a box of 40 that you can easily buy in any supermarket.

… and the makers of the dishwasher even sell their own dishwasher tablets. The DRM cartridges are totally optional! Fun device though, buying a similar countertop dishwasher was without question the best purchase of my adult life.

I wonder if the covid chip shortage caused them to give up on their DRM?
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