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Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

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Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#211

Post by xattt »

javajosh wrote: post #79

Am I the only one who looks at these projects with a combination of awe and apathy and jealousy? I do software, not hardware, and I like knowing how things work. When an expert in a different field glances at a PCB and identifies components, their purpose, by sight, and then rummages around a loose parts bin to go deeper, it dawns on me: this is someone's life. The same way I've been swimming in (application) softwar…

Consider this a metaphor for any field expert. A chef looks in a fridge and sees a combination of ingredients that will make a tasty dish. A teacher looks at a struggling student and sees what strategies will help them succeed. A lawyer looks at a case and sees specific circumstances that help come to an ideal solution.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#212

Post by rsynnott »

dkurth wrote: post #108
mgdlbp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about dishwashers, but I once read about regulation-enforced water/energy-saving cycles resulting in ineffective cleaning, which backfired, as people then got in the habit of always selecting the heaviest cycle or even re-adopted pre-rinsing. Searching for the concept now, I can only find this article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/make-dishwashers-that-clean-aga...

Exactly. We pre-rinse the dishes, get the water running hot before starting the machine, and choose the heavy cycle. Even so, the dishwasher barely cleans our dishes. And it's a Bosch, well reviewed by Consumer Reports when we got it! People in this thread are talking about the SpeedQueen washing machine. Is there something similar for dishwashers? I would pay good money for a dishwasher that actually cleaned my dish…

I'm constantly confused by these threads; the only time I've seen these sorts of problems with dishwashers of any vintage is where people aren't cleaning the filters. You're cleaning the filters, right?

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#213

Post by maccard »

gambiting wrote: post #138
amluto wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My “modern” (20-year-old, which is solidly modern by this standard) dishwasher cleans much better than I remember my childhood dishwasher cleaning. It also doesn’t melt plastic on the bottom rack, which is a fantastic feature. The main downside is it takes two hours, and I think my childhood dishwasher took one hour. My modern front load washer gets clothes clean. It also doesn’t severely abrade them. As I understand…

My new(2 years old) Bosch dishwasher cleans much better than any other dishwasher I used in my life. I'm like 60% sure that the buttons on the front don't actually do anything, because it cleans equally well in all modes, from ECO(50C) to Heavy Load(70C). Yeah the eco mode takes 3 hours by default, but press "Vario Speed" and is done in 1:05h with the exact same result.

> Yeah the eco mode takes 3 hours by default, but press "Vario Speed" and is done in 1:05h with the exact same result.

I wonder about people complaining about this - whether it takes 1 hour or 3 hours, are you sitting in your kitchen waiting for the dishwasher to complete? Put it on after a meal and next time you're in the kitchen it will be done...

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#214

Post by layer8 »

javajosh wrote: post #79

Am I the only one who looks at these projects with a combination of awe and apathy and jealousy? I do software, not hardware, and I like knowing how things work. When an expert in a different field glances at a PCB and identifies components, their purpose, by sight, and then rummages around a loose parts bin to go deeper, it dawns on me: this is someone's life. The same way I've been swimming in (application) softwar…

I believe you could get to that particular level (identifying and reprogramming an I2C EEPROM) pretty quickly as a software engineer. Just get started!

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#215

Post by geewee »

fundatus wrote: post #195
ameesdotme wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bob- and apartment-owner here. We have a small kitchen and just don't have the space for a full-sized dishwasher. Bob fits snugly in the cabinet under the sink and runs once a day for a 2-person household. It's perfect for our needs and saves us a lot of both time and water.

Same! Also it washes at up to 70°C which you simply can't do when hand washing - but it gives you a much better result with less water usage.

Much more energy usage though!

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#216

Post by linker3000 »

gonzo41 wrote: post #97
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

I know an executive working for Haier who doesn't really think the smart home thing is going to work out in it's current form. His view is that people probably want a washing machine that can keep track of it's duty cycles and let you know if water quality is affecting it's performance or if a part is getting close to end of life and organize purchase of the part and an repairer to do the fix. The gimmicks of being a…

I baulked at installing the 'Homewhiz' Android app for my Beko washer/dryer because not only did it want access to my mic and camera, but also GPS and contacts.

Instead, I installed a smart plug with power sensor and hooked it up to a phone dashboard via MQTT and Node-RED so I can work out the current state of the machine (by power draw), and as a fun bonus I get an email at the start and end of each wash/dry cycle.

That's good enough for me - I can't see the point of being able to set the wash program by phone as I have to be physically at the machine when loading it.

If I could use an official app to see machine anomalies or predicted failures without the feeling that I am being bugged or data mined that would be handy.

Allegedly, the Homewhiz protocol is 'Open', but references lead to ISO/IEC 30118-4:2021, which is a multi-document spec for which you have to pay. I also would not be surprised if the appliance's Bluetooth connectivity won't play nice unless there's an outbound 'heartbeat' to a remote server via the phone.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#217

Post by whywhywhywhy »

marcinzm wrote: post #16
andai wrote: post #3

>Detergent DRM The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. (...) The continued development of technology will worsen the situation.

>The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. I'll take detergent DRM any day over being a medieval serf.

You still are a serf, stop paying your taxes and see what happens.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#218

Post by NavinF »

javajosh wrote: post #79

Am I the only one who looks at these projects with a combination of awe and apathy and jealousy? I do software, not hardware, and I like knowing how things work. When an expert in a different field glances at a PCB and identifies components, their purpose, by sight, and then rummages around a loose parts bin to go deeper, it dawns on me: this is someone's life. The same way I've been swimming in (application) softwar…

> jealousy

For what it’s worth, you could do a similar hack with 5 minutes of work and zero background knowledge if you’re willing to take a leap of faith:

1. Break open a used detergent cartridge and notice that there’s only one chip inside

2. Google the number on the chip and click the first link to figure out that it’s a “I2C Serial EEPROM”. Clearly it’s some sort of memory chip since they advertise its capacity

3. Without knowing exactly what an “I2C eeprom” is, google something like “i2c eeprom rewriter” and buy the first result: a $10 BIOS programmer for desktop PCs (which use the same 24 series eeproms)

4. Clip the programmer onto the memory chip and plug it into your PC’s USB port.

The author went a lot further because that’s what he wanted to do, but you don’t have to. He figured out the USB connector’s pinout, but your programmer comes with a clip that attaches directly onto the chip. He reverse-engineered the data on the chip and built a custom programmer, but you could just click the read button in your programmer’s software to back up the data from a brand new cartridge and then write that data to used cartridges.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#219

Post by grogenaut »

blagie wrote: post #202
DeathArrow wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. But how much time is still possible to find boring technology? Unless you find used? And you won't find used for a very long amount of time. Maybe this is a good business case, produce boring technology for people who don't want connected cupboards and dish washer and prefe…

What I'd really like are normal keys for my car -- not $300 remote starters or whatever other nonsense. I put it in, and I turn it. Is there a way to dumbify a car?

yes, people will take the chip out of the key and glue it to the sensor in the steering column for the ines that are still key based. for prox based ones, not sure.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#220

Post by gambiting »

maccard wrote: post #213
gambiting wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My new(2 years old) Bosch dishwasher cleans much better than any other dishwasher I used in my life. I'm like 60% sure that the buttons on the front don't actually do anything, because it cleans equally well in all modes, from ECO(50C) to Heavy Load(70C). Yeah the eco mode takes 3 hours by default, but press "Vario Speed" and is done in 1:05h with the exact same result.

> Yeah the eco mode takes 3 hours by default, but press "Vario Speed" and is done in 1:05h with the exact same result. I wonder about people complaining about this - whether it takes 1 hour or 3 hours, are you sitting in your kitchen waiting for the dishwasher to complete? Put it on after a meal and next time you're in the kitchen it will be done...

I mean, it's nice to have an option for a quick programme when you have guests over and actually it's good to do a couple loads in a single day. But yes overnight I don't care, it can take 6 hours and I wouldn't mind.
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