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Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

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Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#201
post #41

A funny quote if you put on your layman's glasses: > It's simply a 24C02 EEPROM with 4.7K pull-ups on I2C lines, a bypass cap, and some diodes, probably for reverse-insertion protection.

It is very heavy on the jargon indeed. Just in case someone's wondering, the author isn't being facetious it really is a very simple thing. If you google 24C02 you'll get a PDF that probably has this exact schematic in the application examples section.

If you want to take up electronics design as a hobby, you'd probably be at the level where you could have this designed and manufactured within a month or two of evening/weekends studies.

edit: Just for fun, let's go through the jargon. 24C02 EEPROM is the name of a popular chip that stores a tiny bit of persistent memory. Mouser at the moment has more than 80 variations of this chip with hundreds of thousands in stock and hundreds of thousands more in back order. 4.7k pull-ups, this means there's a small resistor between the signal lines and the positive voltage rail. This enables the chip to communicate by pulling the signal low (by shorting it to ground) this way of signalling is very common, someone told me it's because how the telegraph worked but I'm not sure if that's true. I2C is a simple communication protocol that works if chips are really close together (i.e. I think guideline is within 10-15cm). A bypass capacitor is a component that blocks continuous voltage but lets oscillating voltage through. Most chips don't deal well with oscillating voltages on their power supplies so the manufacturer will recommend you (through that PDF I mentioned before) to put a bypass capacitor between the power supply line and the ground, so that the dirty oscillations go directly to ground instead of into your chip. A diode is a component where current can only go in one direction, in this case that's handy because chips usually break if you wire them in reverse polarity. If a user would force this cartridge in backwards, instead of the chip blowing up, the diodes will simply block the current from coming in the wrong way and the device won't work.

And that's it, I think all you need to understand how this cartridge is designed.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#202
post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

>I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. But how much time is still possible to find boring technology? Unless you find used? And you won't find used for a very long amount of time. Maybe this is a good business case, produce boring technology for people who don't want connected cupboards and dish washer and prefe…

What I'd really like are normal keys for my car -- not $300 remote starters or whatever other nonsense. I put it in, and I turn it.

Is there a way to dumbify a car?

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#203
post #97
post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

I know an executive working for Haier who doesn't really think the smart home thing is going to work out in it's current form. His view is that people probably want a washing machine that can keep track of it's duty cycles and let you know if water quality is affecting it's performance or if a part is getting close to end of life and organize purchase of the part and an repairer to do the fix. The gimmicks of being a…

> people probably want a washing machine that can keep track of it's duty cycles and let you know if water quality is affecting it's performance or if a part is getting close to end of life

Sounds good, but you can do it with a few sensors leading to an LCD screen (and a manual in a yellowing clear plastic bag taped to the back of the machine.) And you don't have to disable the machine if that microprocessor burns out, or god forbid put an entire computer in there.

> and organize purchase of the part and an repairer to do the fix.

Not only do I not need any appliance to do this, but

1) if they cared about parts and service, they could have a nice website for this stuff, and they don't. So judging them based on that, this will also be neglected (after being marketed.)

2) this would really be a way to prevent people from getting parts who don't have a current service contract, and to screw them on the prices. It would also be a way to take a huge cut from the repair companies who participate in the program, who would also be large rent-seekers (who could make a deal with device manufacturers to be included in the software) skimming just as much by farming out the work to subcontractors.

End result: single thing goes wrong, repair and parts cost more than the device. Don't worry, they're running a promotion that gives you credit towards buying their latest model.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#204
post #121
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We pre-rinse the dishes, get the water running hot before starting the machine, and choose the heavy cycle. Even so, the dishwasher barely cleans our dishes. And it's a Bosch, well reviewed by Consumer Reports when we got it! People in this thread are talking about the SpeedQueen washing machine. Is there something similar for dishwashers? I would pay good money for a dishwasher that actually cleaned my dish…

> get the water running hot before starting the machine Interesting if this is a US difference - but here (in the UK) at least dishwashers (usually? I suppose I don't want to claim to speak for 100%) only have a cold water inlet; they do their own heating.

This depends on the manufacturer. Some manufacturers make dishwashers that can utilize both hot and cold water and others only work with cold or hot water.

As an example Frigidaire, GE, KitchenAid, Whirlpool will only work with hot water; Samsung, Ikea, Beko will only work with cold water; and Bosch, Miele, Electrolux, LG will work with either.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has DRM got to do with the Steam Engine?

Steam implements DRM: https://blackshellmedia.com/2017/06/28/steam-employs-drm-mea... Non-joke answer: DRM wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Steam Engine. That argument is central to anarcho-primitivism - industrial society will enslave people more and more through technology, and there is no way to prevent it, therefore industrial revolution is a mistake.

And yet you haven't decided to move to a remote bush village, which you could easily afford to do.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#206
post #3

>Detergent DRM The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. (...) The continued development of technology will worsen the situation.

Should read - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unabomber_Manifesto > "We give up a piece of ourselves whenever we adjust to conform to society's standards. That, and we're too plugged in. We're letting technology take over our lives, willingly."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unabomber_Manifesto

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#207
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore adds. --for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs. So in this instance grandpa would be using the smart contract to buy ledger space for a NFT about food? Because NFT's arn't food.

> If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore adds.

There's some reason to think that this has already happened to some extent. In particular, many of the changed purchasing habits of millennials vs genX and boomers are usually attributed to ad-blindness. You'd expect this to go even further in the next generation.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#208

> No need to manually measure and add detergent each wash, very convenient! No difference between adding a dishwasher tablet in the detergent holder of a regular machine. In both cases you're manually adding 1 item into the machine. Except in the case of the dishwasher tablet, it comes from a box of 40 that you can easily buy in any supermarket.

… and the makers of the dishwasher even sell their own dishwasher tablets. The DRM cartridges are totally optional! Fun device though, buying a similar countertop dishwasher was without question the best purchase of my adult life.

[deleted]

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Societies and culture go in wrong directions frequently. The older you grow, the more experience and knowledge you have to recognize bad trends, anticonsumer practices, and outright abusive behaviors. While some of getting old for many is turning into a creature of habit fighting off any and all change, for many it's rejecting what is identified as bad/harmful change or change that exists for no apparent reason. Not…

I remember my grandfather in Vegas lamenting that allowing people to wear trashy street clothes or anything less than formal wear / suit and tie into the casinos, or on airplanes, would lead to more and more bad behavior. This seemed incredibly uncool and old-fashioned at the time, but it turns out he was right. Decades of increasingly lax social codes around how people present themselves in public have led to genera…

> I remember my grandfather in Vegas lamenting that allowing people to wear trashy street clothes or anything less than formal wear / suit and tie into the casinos, or on airplanes, would lead to more and more bad behavior. This seemed incredibly uncool and old-fashioned at the time, but it turns out he was right.

I don't agree at all. A huge amount has changed since airlines enforced formal wear - for example, I can fly to Prague/Budapest/Amsterdam for under €30 from most of Europe, and I can fly return to New York from London for less than weeks wages of minimum wage.

> This struck me with full force when I was invited to the Magic Castle in LA, one of the last venues to require formal wear at all times. One of the most magical things about that place is how it transforms a whole range of everyday visitors who might be people you wouldn't want to hang out with at their local bar into highly civilized men and women on their tip-top behavior.

What makes you think that the dress code is what made them behave, and not that they were invited by someone who put their neck out for them, or the $50 cover charge, or the $20 drinks? Anecdotally, I've seen plenty of people behaving terribly in formalwear over the years.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#210
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Handwashing is water inefficient compared to a lot of dishwashers; if this is something that's important to you, a device like this makes ecologic, if not necessarily economic sense 2. Dishwashers are expensive to people not on tech salaries. All upfront costs are difficult; a smaller upfront payment with a recurring monthly/quarterly subscription payment is much more manageable for many people. 3. There are many…

> Handwashing is water inefficient compared to a lot of dishwashers My grandmother insisted the right way to hand-wash dishes was to plug the sink and fill it up, scrub with your hands in the water, then drain and rinse everything all at once. That should be similar efficiency (or greater?) vs a modern dishwasher, but I'm not sure anyone does that anymore. Everyone else I've seen leaves the water running the whole ti…

That's the standard UK way of washing dishes, but usually with a soak in the hot soapy water first to reduce the scrubbing effort.
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