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Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

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Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#171

Post by zen_1 »

tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

I've been semi in the market for my first car, and fully touch interfaces are a hard deabreaker for me, as are subscription services. I don't want to have to look away from the road to change the volume or turn the Radio off, and I don't get why so many cars force you to these days.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#172

Post by ok123456 »

low_tech_love wrote: post #113

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but if you buy a product because you like it and admire the design and engineering on it, isn't this type of hacking actually a disservice to the company who made it? I mean, I'm not saying this should never be explored (hacking is fun), but in a way you're cutting the resources from the company and potentially helping to bring it down. After all, a business is not made only on top…

No. Someone else decided to do some 'growth hacking' on a finished product. This sort of feature isn't something that originated from the person doing the actual design.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#173

Post by lapser »

belval wrote: post #98

The article is cool but: "£43 ($60) for 90 washes" is roughly in line with puck-style detergent, might even be a bit cheaper so it's not THAT outrageous to me. Not that we should overpay for no reason, but I thought it's still important context.

Not sure what you mean with "puck-style" detergent, but here in the UK, I always tend to buy 100 dishwasher tablets for £12, which works out to £0.12 per wash, and Rinse Aid for £3.50, for which the company claims 80 washes (though I haven't measured), which works out to £0.044 per wash, for a total of £0.164 per wash. £43 for 90 washes is pretty outrageous.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#174

Post by mgdlbp »

yojo wrote: post #87
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

I did the same thing with my range hood. Just no reason for those things to have electronics in them. There’s a Canadian company Victory that sells a couple PCB-free models at prices that are reasonable.

> PCB-free

Interesting coinage. I wonder if something like it will gain traction. I see 'silicon-free' has been used on HN twice in relevant contexts so far:

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=silicon-free&type=comment

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#175

Post by Someone1234 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #69

Wow. So I'm watching the Techmoan review and it's just amazing. You've got this pretty awesome product.... up until you can clearly see the business types shoving their grubby hands in the way of UX and good engineering. Oh no no no. We can't just sell a product. We need recurring revenue. So we'll make DRM proprietary detergent pods that require electronics in each one. Ah, but people will reject that because they k…

I'm only playing devil's advocate, I actually agree.

But people are ignoring the fact this tiny dishwasher likely REQUIRES commercial grade concentrate. If you look at the design of it, it is almost identical to countertop commercial dishwashers but scaled down (and using plastic instead of stainless steel). Those also need to use concentrate. If that's the case, then the manufacturer had to figure out a way of selling commercial dishwasher concentrate directly to consumers that was both safe but also makes it hard for them to use the wrong product (e.g. avoid them buying off-the-shelf dishwasher liquid/gel at the supermarket).

Again, I'm totally playing devil's advocate here, but I do feel like they maybe started out with an actual design goal here (reduce mistakes, improved UX, protect detergent during shipping) then got greedy when they decided each "cassette" only contained 30x washes, and that they'd cost like £5~/per. So I'm giving them credit for solving one problem while criticizing them for getting too greedy anyway.

I feel like they could have struck a nice middle-ground by copying "ink tanks" from inkjet printers. Just downward facing 1 liter bottles of commercial concentrate, with the reset being done in software exclusively rather than tank-DRM (simpler/more reliable anyway). They could still upcharge, but with less waste/less re-ordering.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#176

Post by tunap »

gonzo41 wrote: post #90
throwxxxaway wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore adds. --for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs. So in this instance grandpa would be using the smart contract to buy ledger space for a NFT about food? Because NFT's arn't food.

>If depression rates in children and young adults are anything to go by, younger people absolutely cannot ignore ads(sic).

If you had toddlers in the early 00's(the only time I witnessed it), or were a toddler then, you were likely exposed to plenty of Disney Channel and the frequent barrage of 10 second commercials. Bad programming, IMO.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#177

Post by shaman1 »

Why buy such a thing in the first place? It's 300e and for that money you can buy a full sized one. I'm seeing similar priced mini dishwashers on amazon.

As a sensible cosnumer you should have considered buying something standard and invest you time in something else.

If they would sell the dishwashers and 1/2 price and rely on recurrent income from detergent that's a different story but in this case I see no really reason why would someone even consider it. Let these companies bite the dust.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#178

Post by ssl232 »

low_tech_love wrote: post #113

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but if you buy a product because you like it and admire the design and engineering on it, isn't this type of hacking actually a disservice to the company who made it? I mean, I'm not saying this should never be explored (hacking is fun), but in a way you're cutting the resources from the company and potentially helping to bring it down. After all, a business is not made only on top…

You'd have a point if there hadn't been countless hardware manufacturers in the 20th century who didn't have to rely on DRM for their success.

EDIT: not sure why you're getting downvoted, you don't deserve it from what I can see. Have an upvote.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#179

Post by dkurth »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #154
dkurth wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We pre-rinse the dishes, get the water running hot before starting the machine, and choose the heavy cycle. Even so, the dishwasher barely cleans our dishes. And it's a Bosch, well reviewed by Consumer Reports when we got it! People in this thread are talking about the SpeedQueen washing machine. Is there something similar for dishwashers? I would pay good money for a dishwasher that actually cleaned my dish…

Are you perhaps using tabs? Dishwashers need detergent in the rinse cycle, otherwise they don't rinse well, and tabs don't let you do that. I've had friends who have always pre-rinsed because of wrong dishwasher use. Once they switched to powder and put some in the rinse cycle their dishes don't need pre-rinsing. See https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04

Thank you, I will definitely watch this. We have tried pre-wash detergent, tabs, liquid soap, powder detergents, in various combinations.

There may be something unusual wrong with our dishwasher. Although we clean its filter regularly, sometimes a kind of brown slime forms along the walls and around the filter, and I have to give it a deeper cleaning. Bosch had no idea what this was! I'm curious if anyone else has experienced something like that.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#180

Post by 7952 »

throwxxxaway wrote: post #32
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

I think it depends on the specific technology. I know older people who were excited to get a smart TV where younger people use a phone, dongles or even a laptops. Sometimes they need the smarts more and are less able to escape it. And there are still older tech fans who love finding the future.
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