Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM • Hacker News Board

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#141

Post by jsjohnst » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #121

dkurth wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We pre-rinse the dishes, get the water running hot before starting the machine, and choose the heavy cycle. Even so, the dishwasher barely cleans our dishes. And it's a Bosch, well reviewed by Consumer Reports when we got it! People in this thread are talking about the SpeedQueen washing machine. Is there something similar for dishwashers? I would pay good money for a dishwasher that actually cleaned my dish…

> get the water running hot before starting the machine Interesting if this is a US difference - but here (in the UK) at least dishwashers (usually? I suppose I don't want to claim to speak for 100%) only have a cold water inlet; they do their own heating.

They usually are the same in the US too based on my own anecdata of having ~10 different ones over past twenty years.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#142

Post by II2II » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

jsymolon wrote: post #107

javajosh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: the only reason the product is so nice is because the grubby handed business types could raise the money by promising MRR to the investors. Reverse devil's advocate: and this is why hacking is so essential, so that some of us get to have our cake (meticulously and expensively designed stuff) and eat it too (opt out of MRR). Although this does create a new kind of 1%, but its one based on merit so it…

Interesting story on how it could go. Unauthorized Bread, Cory Doctorow https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-...

Unfortunately, some business people seem to be using his writing as a manual to create the future.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#143

Post by chinathrow » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

belval wrote: post #98

The article is cool but: "£43 ($60) for 90 washes" is roughly in line with puck-style detergent, might even be a bit cheaper so it's not THAT outrageous to me. Not that we should overpay for no reason, but I thought it's still important context.

So we overpay for puck-style detergent too then.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#144

Post by cybrox » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #79

Am I the only one who looks at these projects with a combination of awe and apathy and jealousy? I do software, not hardware, and I like knowing how things work. When an expert in a different field glances at a PCB and identifies components, their purpose, by sight, and then rummages around a loose parts bin to go deeper, it dawns on me: this is someone's life. The same way I've been swimming in (application) softwar…

There's something very enjoyable about seeing knowledgable people dissecting things. As someone who can do - and has done - both hardware and software work, I also understand why people like to share these experiences. Every step in reverse engineering is a huge success and a nice boost of you ego, confirming that your accumulated skillset is powerful.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#145

Post by nicbou » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

I do the same.

I avoid anything that ties me to the manufacturer. Once one of their MBAs decides that the product line is no longer profitable, the servers go offline, the software stops getting updates, the cartridges stop being produced.

I like self-contained products that I can repair myself (within reason). I have growing faith in my ability to repair things. However, manufacturers find it profitable to withhold the tools, parts and knowledge I need to do this.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#146

Post by walski » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

mgdlbp wrote: post #123

walski wrote: post #92

Seems to have gained a lot of popularity since it's last posting a year ago :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26787002

That post went directly to the product page, but having 'Hacking' and 'DRM' in the title probably didn't hurt the previous submission of the repo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27013880 1260 points | 2021-05-02 | 406 comments

I knew I saw this here! Very likely on that submission. Thanks for digging.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#147

Post by Tomdarkness » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

eecc wrote: post #85

Waterluvian wrote: post #69

Wow. So I'm watching the Techmoan review and it's just amazing. You've got this pretty awesome product.... up until you can clearly see the business types shoving their grubby hands in the way of UX and good engineering. Oh no no no. We can't just sell a product. We need recurring revenue. So we'll make DRM proprietary detergent pods that require electronics in each one. Ah, but people will reject that because they k…

Well, is it perhaps the case that the device would cost a ton more if consumables weren't DRM'd? I'd say the problem here is disingenuous marketing. If producers honestly communicated beforehand that it is not really a sale, but rather a sort of pay-as-you go leasing, it would be clearer for everyone. Even HP -- for all its faults -- have started selling honest ink subscription services and unless they DRM the printe…

I mean you can get pretty comparable counter top dishwashers for a similar price or even less that just use regular dishwasher detergent with no DRM features.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#148

Post by tomrod » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

pettycashstash2 wrote: post #101

tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

I keep hearing about speed queens. Are they available in the us market? Where would one purchase one ? What is the cost for one?

Yep. Check out their website in the sibling comment. The places around me tend to be for "luxury" homes -- surprisingly, the items at these shops tend to be quite low tech. Low tech == modern luxury?

We went with a lower end model that cost about 50% more than the similar sized models available at Lowes/Home Depot. Considering we'd already repaired the old unit a handful of times and it cost in that range, we only need it to last about 4 years before we break even.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#149

Post by skocznymroczny » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

marcodiego wrote: post #19

Imagine how much we're wasting with inkjet printers.

I bought a cheap black and white laser printer and it's been working great for me. I don't print that much, and if I do it's text anyway or things like plane tickets which don't need color. I don't have to worry about refilling four inks at once, I don't have to worry about ink spilling.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#150

Post by paskozdilar » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #104

cjbgkagh wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a prescient manifesto by Ted Kaczynski (an MKUltra’ed domestic terrorist). I often show it to friends who doubt that todays state of mass manipulation and over socialization could have been predicted. I highly recommend reading it. His killing people to get it published put me off reading it, but a friend recommended it so I relented. I found it a good read. I should point out that the consequence he was warning…

You’re seriously recommending the manifesto of an anarchist that lived in a cabin in the woods without running water and sent dozens of mail bombs to innocent people? Come on, you can’t find something to support your ideas that doesn’t help glorify random murders?

You're seriously trying to censor one of the most influential anarcho-primitivists in the world, on the basis that talking about his work somehow "glorifies random murders"? Talk about oversocialization.