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Climate Spiral [video]

svs.gsfc.nasa.gov

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Re: Climate Spiral [video]

#21

Post by 0des »

ceejayoz wrote: post #19
a-dub wrote: post #14

so here's a fun question: it's become quite trendy in policy circles in california to incentivize the removal of lawns and gardens as part of water conservation efforts. doesn't removal of fertile topsoil and replacement of it with rocks and cacti at scale actually reduce carbon sequestration and heat absorption capacity?

Grassy lawns and lush gardens in dry areas require so much water any water any possible benefit of carbon sequestration is counterbalanced by the irrigation infrastructure required.

Do cashew farms and strawberries next

Re: Climate Spiral [video]

#22

Post by turtledove »

a-dub wrote: post #14

so here's a fun question: it's become quite trendy in policy circles in california to incentivize the removal of lawns and gardens as part of water conservation efforts. doesn't removal of fertile topsoil and replacement of it with rocks and cacti at scale actually reduce carbon sequestration and heat absorption capacity?

I don't think so in any meaningful way. Also, removing and wasting the water to keep a lawn green heats the river that water was pulled from.

Plus, mowing a lawn is usually done with some of the dirtiest engines out there.

Removing lawns is always a net good.

Re: Climate Spiral [video]

#23

Post by iandinwoodie »

a-dub wrote: post #14

so here's a fun question: it's become quite trendy in policy circles in california to incentivize the removal of lawns and gardens as part of water conservation efforts. doesn't removal of fertile topsoil and replacement of it with rocks and cacti at scale actually reduce carbon sequestration and heat absorption capacity?

In addition, I wonder what effect this sort of “manual desertification” has on the soil when done en masse.

Re: Climate Spiral [video]

#24

Post by netsharc »

Wohlf wrote: post #11

Very cool visualization! What are the causes of the rapid acceleration starting in the 80s, I assume globalization had something to do with it?

Probably what sibling comment said, and the economic boom after WW2.

This op-ed[1][2] says:

> For a few years, I’ve startled people by pointing out that over half of all of the emissions from the burning of fossil fuels that have ever been produced in the history of humanity have been produced in the past 30 years — since Al Gore published his first book on warming; since the U.N. established its climate-change body, the I.P.C.C.; since the premiere of “Friends.”

Which is fucking shocking. Later on he says "At the Rio Earth Summit in 1992, the global promise was to avoid “dangerous” warming.", if I were the editor I'd point out that's 30 years ago and that he should add something like "the cutoff-year after which we've emitted in 30 years the same amount of fossil fuel emissions of the last several millennia until that point".

Obviously this is "citation needed" territory, but I'm relying on the reputation of NYT to have hired a researcher that backs up what he's written with hard data.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/17/opinion/india-heat-wave-p... [2] https://archive.ph/GTtXP

Re: Climate Spiral [video]

#25

Post by turtledove »

dgb23 wrote: post #12
Wohlf wrote: post #11

Very cool visualization! What are the causes of the rapid acceleration starting in the 80s, I assume globalization had something to do with it?

Climate effects are typically delayed by decades.

The post war era saw a huge jump in resource usage, and the discovery of the Haber process resulted in huge agricultural returns, enabling a massive population spike.

Re: Climate Spiral [video]

#26

Post by Majestic121 »

iandinwoodie wrote: post #23
a-dub wrote: post #14

so here's a fun question: it's become quite trendy in policy circles in california to incentivize the removal of lawns and gardens as part of water conservation efforts. doesn't removal of fertile topsoil and replacement of it with rocks and cacti at scale actually reduce carbon sequestration and heat absorption capacity?

In addition, I wonder what effect this sort of “manual desertification” has on the soil when done en masse.

It seems odd to me to frame this as manual desertification. Isn't it the opposite, return to a natural state after manual "grassification" that requires strong human intervention?

Re: Climate Spiral [video]

#28

Post by turtledove »

starkd wrote: post #20
smitty1e wrote: post #5

I find data presented in such a manner, without comment, quite a bit more compelling than much of what passes for debate these days.

Agree visualizations are more powerful. But it would be nice to see a discussion about the data itself.

The data is accessible directly from the visualization page. But humans are very bad at looking at sheets of numbers and interpreting them quickly. Visualizations help us understand much more rapidly.

Re: Climate Spiral [video]

#29

Post by veltas »

This visualisation is misleading because the visual area covered increases quadratically as the radius increases, and (less misleading) the velocity of the 'pen' increases linearly too. But it's measuring a difference (not an absolute quantity): so velocity and (especially) area are arbitrary. I could take the same graph and apply it to the period between 1890 and 1945 and it would seem just as concerning, with a different scale.

Re: Climate Spiral [video]

#30

Post by turtledove »

iandinwoodie wrote: post #23
a-dub wrote: post #14

so here's a fun question: it's become quite trendy in policy circles in california to incentivize the removal of lawns and gardens as part of water conservation efforts. doesn't removal of fertile topsoil and replacement of it with rocks and cacti at scale actually reduce carbon sequestration and heat absorption capacity?

In addition, I wonder what effect this sort of “manual desertification” has on the soil when done en masse.

It's not an environment that naturally supports soil. The energy and water needs to support an unnatural environment are quite large.
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