Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 360 posts

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#121

Post by OJFord »

dkurth wrote: post #108
mgdlbp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about dishwashers, but I once read about regulation-enforced water/energy-saving cycles resulting in ineffective cleaning, which backfired, as people then got in the habit of always selecting the heaviest cycle or even re-adopted pre-rinsing. Searching for the concept now, I can only find this article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/make-dishwashers-that-clean-aga...

Exactly. We pre-rinse the dishes, get the water running hot before starting the machine, and choose the heavy cycle. Even so, the dishwasher barely cleans our dishes. And it's a Bosch, well reviewed by Consumer Reports when we got it! People in this thread are talking about the SpeedQueen washing machine. Is there something similar for dishwashers? I would pay good money for a dishwasher that actually cleaned my dish…

> get the water running hot before starting the machine

Interesting if this is a US difference - but here (in the UK) at least dishwashers (usually? I suppose I don't want to claim to speak for 100%) only have a cold water inlet; they do their own heating.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#122

Post by vultour »

Had a look through the website, and while the headline sounds pretty upsetting I think it's important to note that the thing works just fine with regular detergent tablets. This DRM'd monstrosity seems to be an "upgrade" so you don't have to manually put detergent in every time.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#123

Post by mgdlbp »

walski wrote: post #92

Seems to have gained a lot of popularity since it's last posting a year ago :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26787002

That post went directly to the product page, but having 'Hacking' and 'DRM' in the title probably didn't hurt the previous submission of the repo:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27013880

1260 points | 2021-05-02 | 406 comments

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#124

Post by skocznymroczny »

paskozdilar wrote: post #26
secondcoming wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has DRM got to do with the Steam Engine?

Steam implements DRM: https://blackshellmedia.com/2017/06/28/steam-employs-drm-mea... Non-joke answer: DRM wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Steam Engine. That argument is central to anarcho-primitivism - industrial society will enslave people more and more through technology, and there is no way to prevent it, therefore industrial revolution is a mistake.

Well, most games did not have online DRM and such until Steam spearheaded the way. You needed to activate the game online through Steam to play Half-Life 2, in a move very criticized back then. Fast forward 15 years and people are threatening not to buy the game unless it's released on their DRM platform of choice.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#125

Post by tomohawk »

hguant wrote: post #65
causality0 wrote: post #5

I see the point of that dishwasher for someone who doesn't have easy access to a sink like a student in a dorm, but I can't fathom why you'd put one in a house or apartment. With such a tiny capacity you're better off hand washing.

1. Handwashing is water inefficient compared to a lot of dishwashers; if this is something that's important to you, a device like this makes ecologic, if not necessarily economic sense 2. Dishwashers are expensive to people not on tech salaries. All upfront costs are difficult; a smaller upfront payment with a recurring monthly/quarterly subscription payment is much more manageable for many people. 3. There are many…

> water inefficient

Only if you don't know how to wash dishes by hand. Hand washing can be more efficient.

If you live in one of those unsustainable cities built in a desert, this probably matters, but as someone who doesn't, I'm sick of subsidizing that lifestyle by having to deal with cleaning devices designed for those conditions that don't work well.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#126

Post by dreamcompiler »

throwxxxaway wrote: post #32
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

No. It's that the UI, privacy leakage, software, and electronic engineering of these things is simply horrible.

I'd be happy with IoT appliances iff:

--They weren't designed to fail because of poor power conditioning and thermal management.

--They weren't vectors for botnets due to poor security.

--They ran on my personal cloud or LAN rather than some godawful Chinese server.

--I had veto power over all SW updates, and I could roll them back.

--They didn't constantly beep at me as if I were their servant, rather than the other way around.

--Their MTBF was longer than "dumb" appliances rather than shorter.

I can design systems like this, but apparently the big white goods manufacturers cannot, or don't want to.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#127

Post by skeeter2020 »

throwxxxaway wrote: post #32
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

I think part of this is inevitable, but I am still very concerned because we cannot rewire our brains in less than single generation, and despite what many think you are paying attention to those ads. My parents might struggle with technology but I'd argue it's because they are trying to do something basic (like access the internet) or of value (like watch their favourite streaming series). I'm not convinced these new "value extraction" pain points that cause us hardship are the same.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#128

Post by jotm »

throwxxxaway wrote: post #32
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

No, I can ignore ads very well. I just buy what I need after a lot of research (and sadly good/real reviews are harder to come by).

All new advancements in "tech" have actually been in money making. Like appliances that require special cartridges for no good reason other than it being more profitable for the manufacturer. They finally adapter the printer-ink model, heh.

Did you know most contracts forbid recycling companies from taking out parts and selling them? Because it would cut into profits on overpriced spare parts, of course (official reason is "we can't trust that they'll perform well"). And so they go to landfills or at best, are melted down into something usable at huge energy costs.

Yes, people will put up with it. I hope not for long. I know people making 50k/year (good salary for EU) and literally spending it all on the "best" shit, who wish to buy a house and saying it's impossible. Then there's the people making 20k/year who save for many long years and buy a 300k+ house, or at least an apartment.

Willing to bet who will be better off in a decade or so? Or whose kids? Ha ha, I might actually lose that bet if a war or catastrophic natural events happen.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#129

Post by amluto »

mgdlbp wrote: post #76
throwaway09223 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpeedQueen owner here as well. Even more important than repairability is that the SpeedQueen actually cleans my clothes . In the 80s I remember coming home with mud caked on my clothes, shaking them off and throwing them in the washer. I'd even throw my muddy sneakers in the wash. If I try that with a modern low-water unit there's still dirt on them after a wash. The SpeedQueen will handle this kind of heavy soiling.…

This is about dishwashers, but I once read about regulation-enforced water/energy-saving cycles resulting in ineffective cleaning, which backfired, as people then got in the habit of always selecting the heaviest cycle or even re-adopted pre-rinsing. Searching for the concept now, I can only find this article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/make-dishwashers-that-clean-aga...

My “modern” (20-year-old, which is solidly modern by this standard) dishwasher cleans much better than I remember my childhood dishwasher cleaning. It also doesn’t melt plastic on the bottom rack, which is a fantastic feature. The main downside is it takes two hours, and I think my childhood dishwasher took one hour.

My modern front load washer gets clothes clean. It also doesn’t severely abrade them. As I understand it, this combination of features is unavailable in a top-loader. Top-loaders with agitators clean well but damage clothing due to rubbing against the agitator. Top-loaders without agitators don’t clean well.

(Fundamentally, front loading is just a better design. There is no reason to submerge clothes for the whole cycle; to the contrary, one wants the clothes to move relative to the water. With a top loader, the clothes and the water move as a unit and gravity doesn’t help at all except to the extent that it avoids needing a seal on the door. With a front loader, gravity actively assists the process. And, aside from saving water, the fact that less water is used means that less detergent is needed to achieve a given concentration.)

Make fun of modern low-water appliances all you like, but a lot of them are much better than the things they replaced even if you don’t care about water usage.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#130

Post by skeeter2020 »

LoveGracePeace wrote: post #103
netr0ute wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can it be that we are just getting old? That's rich, considering that I'm 18 and I have the same views.

It's encouraging to read that young people are starting to get a good foothold on the ground. Tech is cool and helpful but only as far as we can throw it when it breaks.

Agree! please keep up the fight. Use the benefits (like ad blocking making YT watchable) to encourage other young people to fight too!
Post reply on HN