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Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

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Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#111

Post by throwaway09223 »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #82
mgdlbp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about dishwashers, but I once read about regulation-enforced water/energy-saving cycles resulting in ineffective cleaning, which backfired, as people then got in the habit of always selecting the heaviest cycle or even re-adopted pre-rinsing. Searching for the concept now, I can only find this article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/make-dishwashers-that-clean-aga...

Exactly. I read "Eco mode" (which can be found on virtually any product today) as 'ignore entirely'.

The Department of Energy actually banned the SpeedQueen TC5 washer model a few years back because it didn't have a sufficient eco mode (read this as: it automated more of the washing work for you than the government would allow)

The workaround is that modern SpeedQueen washers have a "normal/eco" default mode which doesn't do a good job at all. This mode exists to satisfy the DoE policy. The washer is intended to never be run on this mode, and all the other modes do a fantastic washing job.

I have the newer TC5 with the bogus "normal/eco" cycle. It's a great washer as long as the government mandated useless mode isn't selected.

Here's a nyt/wirecutter article about it: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/speed-queen-revie...

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#112

Post by Waterluvian »

jsymolon wrote: post #107
javajosh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: the only reason the product is so nice is because the grubby handed business types could raise the money by promising MRR to the investors. Reverse devil's advocate: and this is why hacking is so essential, so that some of us get to have our cake (meticulously and expensively designed stuff) and eat it too (opt out of MRR). Although this does create a new kind of 1%, but its one based on merit so it…

Interesting story on how it could go. Unauthorized Bread, Cory Doctorow https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-...

Hah great read. Reminds me of this copypasta:

https://imgur.com/r/4chan/dgGvgKF

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#113

Post by low_tech_love »

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but if you buy a product because you like it and admire the design and engineering on it, isn't this type of hacking actually a disservice to the company who made it? I mean, I'm not saying this should never be explored (hacking is fun), but in a way you're cutting the resources from the company and potentially helping to bring it down. After all, a business is not made only on top of "cost + small profit percentage". Maybe their business model requires such prices and is impossible without them (especially if it's a small company).

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#115

Post by _0ffh »

lb1lf wrote: post #62
_0ffh wrote: post #33

After reading through the thing, I don't see any DRM at all. Just a simple counter for the machine to know when the cartridge is empty. Frankly, I feel deliberately mislead by the headline, as seems to be getting the norm these days. Edit: Kindly tell me where I'm wrong.

As far as the average end user is concerned, this amounts to the same thing as full-blown DRM; rather than being allowed to do the sensible and (for you as a consumer) cost-effective thing, this counter forces you to replenish detergent supplies at an artificially inflated price.

Article: "you can [...] add detergents manually [...] however they strongly suggest against this", so I can't see how anybody is forced to buy the cartridges. Also, they did obviously not put any work in making their "DRM" secure. At the most, they're hoping that people would buy the expensive new cartridges, because it's more convenient than manually adding the detergent. It's a grey zone at best.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#116

Post by memcg »

pettycashstash2 wrote: post #101
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

I keep hearing about speed queens. Are they available in the us market? Where would one purchase one ? What is the cost for one?

https://speedqueen.com/where-to-buy/

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#117

Post by sseagull »

memcg wrote: post #81
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

I bought a Whirlpool washer and dryer set in 1982 based on Consumer Reports testing. In 2017, I replaced the washer with a Speed Queen. It was recommended by a friend who owns a few rental houses. The Whirlpool dryer is still running. Anyone else use Consumer Reports?

I do. I bought a house a few years ago, and needed to buy a whole bunch of stuff (lawnmower, generator, washer, dryer, freezer, bed, etc). Really helped pare down what was out there. Largely use it for bigger items, though.

I just didn't have it in me to "research" all that stuff online. On one side, you have scummy review sites or sites with uneducated reviewers, and on the other, very opinionated aficionados who want you to spend $$$$$ on every little thing, or else it's just an inferior experience (of mowing the lawn or something).

I'm sure CR isn't perfect, but sometimes I just need a recommendation that's not complete garbage and then to move on with life.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#118

Post by j-bos »

fifticon wrote: post #88
throwxxxaway wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

I've justed installed 5 years' worth of Revit on my new laptop today, and with each year the UI on their installers are getting worse. On Revit 2022, some of the splash screen prompts are not resizable and not MOVABLE, ie they don't respond to alt+space for windows menu. This is not OK. On one of them, I had to answer input prompts that they rendered OFF SCREEN. I solved that by changing display resolution.. Another…

Revit installs are the worst. Iused to freelance for an engineer and once I moved on from that it was amazing how much cruft from Autodesk was left on my machine. I'm guessing most of it was based on anti piracy measures. I often wonder how much overlap there is between anti piracy, ani cheat, and "productivity" measuring tech.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#119

Post by cjbgkagh »

paskozdilar wrote: post #42
Semaphor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So which parts are bad enough that you’d prefer medieval serfdom?

Noise pollution is my number one. There is simply no way to escape it living in the city, and there are no job opportunities for software engineers on the countryside (not that it's perfect on the countryside either - given all the motor-based tractors, chainsaws, lawnmowers, leafblowers...). I hate it and it's driving me crazy and all I want is peace and quiet, but apparently, that's too much to ask and I'm spoiled…

Unusually high levels of noise sensitivity (low tolerance) may be an indication of an underlying genetic condition like hEDS.

Re: Bob Cassette Rewinder: Hacking Detergent DRM

#120

Post by Frost1x »

throwxxxaway wrote: post #32
tomrod wrote: post #14

I am, more and more, deliberately choosing boring technology. Knobs in the car and on appliances. No screen interfaces. Low-tech where possible. We just replaced our "high tech" Maytag dryer and its "advanced" feature set for a low tech SpeedQueen, the same dryers you find in most Laundromats. Why? Repairability. While we could _technically_ replace the burnt out fuse in the Maytag, it would take at least two hours f…

Can it be that we are just getting old? The new generation will have their brains wired to ignore ads, will be ok with devices spying on them (it will be called something else). And we will be something like that grandpa that can't unblock the mobile phone. (for example, use that new blockchain smart contract to open the fridge and order some food NFTs)

Societies and culture go in wrong directions frequently. The older you grow, the more experience and knowledge you have to recognize bad trends, anticonsumer practices, and outright abusive behaviors. While some of getting old for many is turning into a creature of habit fighting off any and all change, for many it's rejecting what is identified as bad/harmful change or change that exists for no apparent reason.

Not all old people are luddites or simply too inept to deal with change, sometimes they make conscious decisions to reject a given change yet are forced by the rest of society on occasion to deal with it. New technologies need to clarify the tradeoffs that exist and what the real value add is beyond marketing propoganda.

Many are obsessed with social media and smart devices all over their home (regardless of age). Meanwhile, people who frequent this site are largely technologists who are very tech savvy, sometimes the people creating these very systems, and many of them actively reject such technology and systems because they know exactly how harmful things can be. It's not because they're old, it's because they're informed.

More and more business practices are losing their alignment with society and pulling more value than they create and people simply don't want to deal with it. I applaud markets actually functioning healthily and rejecting abusive practices. This DRM may exist for a lot of good reasons, refillability simply may be impractical after skimming over the writeup for some. Meanwhile you have systems like DRM on KCups coffee makers that are completely ludicrous.

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