Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Food security and the coming storm

eurasiagroup.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 427 posts

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#361

Post by imtringued »

phpisthebest wrote: post #220
redisman wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would mainly blame capitalism and globalization. It’s very hard to stick to your principles when you can get everything for a 10th of the price/effort from Walmart. It’s also completely impossible to be self reliant in any mid sized or bigger metro area because you just don’t have enough land to produce food and energy.

globalism sure... capitalism... that would require a more nuance explanation of what you mean by "capitalism" since that is huge subject often misused by people that do no understand that all ownership of private capital and means of production is "capitalism" under which there can be good and bad effects. So blaming "capitalism" for anything likely means the person is ignorant on the topic of economics, or is speaki…

> since that is huge subject often misused by people that do no understand that all ownership of private capital and means of production is "capitalism" under which there can be good and bad effects.

I would argue that this misses the point. Capitalism isn't just a pile of physical capital. If it was, it would be impossible to result in oppression since physical capital must be maintained and it can be reproduced. Nobody would have any right to complain. Just think about it, would you be jealous of Jeff Bezoz' maintenance bill for his mega yacht? No, you are "jealous" that he has exclusive monopoly rights that restrict your own rights and perhaps even doom you to poverty.

It would be more appropriate to call "capitalism" the obsession to put the interests of capital and its owners above all other interests. This means, capital should be allowed to override the basic needs of other humans. Capital should have the right to deny others the ability to obtain shelter or food. Because of capital it should be possible to deny others the ability to trade or be employed.

>capitalism as an economic system is a foundation for liberty, one can not have a free society with out capitalism in some form.

Now you have trapped yourself inside a network of contradictions. If capital overrides all your decisions, how can you consider yourself free? How can a society where only one special groups interests are being heard, call itself free?

No, instead of doubling down on taking ever more people's rights away, we should be doing the opposite. We should be striving to give everyone the ability to help themselves, decide for themselves and to live their lives according to the best of their abilities.

This is where the paths diverge. You are confusing market economies with capitalism, which is merely a perversion of market economies. A free market is inherently anti-capitalist because it values the freedoms of its participants over any special interest groups. A free market inherently denies capital the ability to deny other people the ability to obtain shelter or food. It inherently denies capital the ability to prevent others from trading and forcing them into unemployment.

No, a free market isn't free as in gratis. It's free as in freedom.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#362

Post by bosie »

copperx wrote: post #335
lobocinza wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it isn't balanced it can lead to health issues on the long term.

Nutrient deficiencies are associated with a longer lifespan, so I'm not sure there's a real reason for concern.

Do you mind providing a source for that as I cannot seem to find anything on a quick google search now?

is it longer lifespan or equal quality of life + longer lifespan?

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#363

Post by ajsnigrutin »

imtringued wrote: post #357
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been waking up to this during the current gas price crisis... governments say they're doing everything they can, but they can't do more, because of the global oil prices,... ...meanwhile more than half of the gas price goes to the government, and people are notcing.

How is a market price distortion (artificially lowering gas prices through tax cuts) supposed to solve the gas price crisis? You want people to use less gas, so there is more left over for the industries that actually need it. You don't want consumers to use subsidized gas wastefully.

You also want people to be able to get to work and not freeze to death in their apartments, and still be able to afford food after that.

It's not a gas crisis, there's enough gas, it's a politics crisis.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#364

Post by usrn »

guerrilla wrote: post #342
usrn wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a first responsibility to our own people. Furthermore if we don't take care of them everyone else will just export their unsustainable configuration to us and everyone will starve.

Our people are doing pretty well here in northern Europe. We've taken good care of them and of course we can always do better and I'm sure we will do so in the future. In the meantime, I think we should also help other people when we can afford to do so. I think it's cruel not to do so and I think it's in everyone's self-interest to promote the helping of others when we can afford to do so because we may some day nee…

It's possible that these policies are a large part of why Northern Europe is doing so well.

The best thing you can do for people in other countries is help them clean up their own countries. People keep calling it colonialism though.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#365

Post by usrn »

guerrilla wrote: post #125
Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You left out the part about turning to fascism." Why do you think people "turn to fascism" in the first place??

Because they are racist natioanlist authoritarians and they perceive it as benefiting them.

Or they feel threatened.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#366

Post by imtringued »

oneoff786 wrote: post #266
ALittleLight wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people would trust the government and authorities generally more, if those authorities weren't constantly lying to them. The authorities could say "Here is a rigorous procedure for DIY formula. We strongly recommend against using this, except in an emergency, because slight deviations could result in harm or death for the baby." Instead, they seem to give the impression that DIY formula is never advisable or…

A rigorous procedure involves precise measurements, ph testing, and other things many people do not understand let alone have the capability to execute. But could easily attempt anyway and fuck up

As others have said, it is impossible to verify your statement because the verification method is kept hidden because "it would be dangerous".

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#367

Post by actually_a_dog »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #275
actually_a_dog wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the current climate allows price increases and thus an increase in margins. I just want to point out and emphasize that this is literally saying "companies can raise prices right now because they feel like it ." This is not how a "free market" is supposed to work.

Free markets never work when the players get too big to fail. It happened for banks, it happened for tech and it's happening to food.

Right. And that "when" is actually "always, eventually," because free markets create concentration of wealth (in practice, not in theory, which implies the theory isn't all that useful). So, you might as well modify this to "free markets never work in the long run."

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#368

Post by imtringued »

pixl97 wrote: post #281
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can grow other calories on the land you're growing corn for ethenol and livestock feed.

With the massive efficiency of corn its actually kinda hard to do that to the level you expect. Corn is very effective at turning space into starch.

What massive efficiency? You're feeding it to animals. 80% of the calories are immediately pooped out.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#369

Post by imtringued »

Victerius wrote: post #204
guerrilla wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which would kill them and cause massive suffering, so... no? I don't understand how people can be both this cruel and want to propagate such a norm: What happens when it's your turn to starve outside the gate? This kind of rhetoric is _not_ in your self-interest. Nobody is immune to the potential to need to migrate.

> Nobody is immune to the potential to need to migrate. People in wealthy, food-secure countries are. (immune to the potential to need to migrate)

That didn't help against the floods in Germany.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#370

Post by imtringued »

Auracle wrote: post #226
guerrilla wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which would kill them and cause massive suffering, so... no? I don't understand how people can be both this cruel and want to propagate such a norm: What happens when it's your turn to starve outside the gate? This kind of rhetoric is _not_ in your self-interest. Nobody is immune to the potential to need to migrate.

They wouldn’t come if they knew they would be stopped. We can (and do) send aid when needed, even though our countries are under no obligation to do so.

They don't mind dying by the hundreds in crappy boats crossing the Mediterranean Sea.
Post reply on HN