Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#101

Post by wink » Mon, May 30, 2022, 10:23 AM UTC

tpmx wrote: post #64

rjzzleep wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was privatized in 1994. It's actually interesting that to the outside world people believe that it wasn't privatized because of the weird holding structure that it has. They actually brag about how the privatization in 1994 was a huge success. The history of the privatisation of the Staatsbahn is so convoluted that it's hard to tell what actually happened. https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/erfolgreiche-weichenstellun…

That article describes Deutsche Bahn being converted from a government agency to a fully state-owned "private" (public) company. The word "private" as used here does not mean what you think it means. ("Mit der Bahnreform entstand ein Wirtschaftsunternehmen in privatrechtlicher Form. Der Bund blieb zwar alleiniger Eigentümer der neuen Bahn AG, er sollte allerdings nur noch bei strategischen Entscheidungen mitreden dür…

It's more nuanced than looking at this 'who owns it and is it really a privatization'. Back when the people working at DB were government officials there weren't so many problems, trains were on time and money was spent on the infra. Then they sent them all into early retirement and I guess everything is now more focused on profits (are there even any?) but the outcome is that it's badly managed and dysfunctional.

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#102

Post by wink » Mon, May 30, 2022, 10:28 AM UTC

chromanoid wrote: post #41

DocTomoe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess: Your commute was in East Germany? Reliability is a lot better there [1] [1] https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10652-bahnmining_-_punktlichkeit...

No, it was the route from Hamburg to Munich or similar.

I worked for a company for 7 years and the only ICE (between our Munich and Würzburg office) I took that was not either: replaced with an IC, cancelled, or my reservation messed up... was the one to a company christmas party. So the table seat to be able to work on the ride happened exactly 0 times out of X where I tried. But I think they were at least on time and I wasn't stranded. Not that I should need to mention this...

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#103

Post by wink » Mon, May 30, 2022, 10:31 AM UTC

esel2k wrote: post #75

As Swiss (just southern country of Germany fyi), the push for cheaper train is always interesting. However I expect the same level of punctuality and reliability when I would be ready to use train vs my car for work or business trips. I did regularly go to Germany for work (Stuttgart, Karlsruhe and Frankfurt) and regularly had issues with either people causing trouble and police needed to board, suicide (sad but a re…

If the train costs more than flying and is a lot less reliable there's basically only the environmental argument left.

That said, I'm not sure what I want to choose. Trains /should/ be cheaper than planes, but they also shouldn't be a roulette whether I will arrive on time, or at all.

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#104

Post by wink » Mon, May 30, 2022, 10:33 AM UTC

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #95

Lots of negativity here about the fact that German trains aren’t as great as you would hope. On one hand I understand - I live in Switzerland and the German trains are not as reliable as the Swiss ones. However, I’m an American and as such I am very impressed that Germany is pushing this. This is great news for anyone who cares about climate change or stopping Putin, because it indicates political will to get more pe…

The idea is great, the implementation is horrible. There have already been announcements that regular prices will probably increase after that because the transport companies/conglomerates are not happy with the state deciding this ticket but not providing enough money to subsidize it.

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#105

Post by chrisandchris » Mon, May 30, 2022, 11:54 AM UTC

Tainnor wrote: post #86

winkelwagen wrote: post #5

As someone using the German railway for a large distance destination couple a weeks ago it was a total disaster, we got stranded in a unfamiliar German city. Deutsche bahn told us they didn’t have any of their (partner) hotel rooms left. Just arrange something yourself. That was very nice because all the hotels were full anyway. It took us another 2 hours of calling to find something. I was exhausted when I finally c…

I've definitely had my "I hate DB" moments in my life and experiences similar to the one you describe, but for me, most of the time, I don't experience major issues (I don't count "train is half an hour late" to be a major issue, although I agree that it's kind of laughable that this happens so often - but I got used to it). It's definitely easier if you don't have to change trains or you don't take a super late trai…

That's an interesting viewpoint and as someone living in the south of you, I have a hard time to understand why 30min is not a major issue. I feel more like after 5min, it's way to late :D ...

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#106

Post by Archelaos » Mon, May 30, 2022, 12:51 PM UTC

Since the discussions here are primarily about the railway system, Deutsche Bahn and especially long distance travels, I would like to point out that most of this does not specifically apply to the 9-Euro-per-month ticket for this summer. But first, I want to agree with many of the complaints, that long distance travelling by train has its annoyances in Germany: lots of trains not on schedule, missed connections resulting from that, occasionally completely overfull trains, very bad management when something goes wrong.

However, the 9-Euro ticket is not designed for long distance travels. (You may use it as such, because some regional trains are covering quite a distance and by switching from local train to local train; just take your time.) Besides of local and regional trains, it is also valid for most of the local trams and buses as well (except some private operators, that do not participate).

The ease it provides for local transport is, what it makes really attractive for me. I do not need to think about how to get a ticket (often in advance), if I am visiting somewhere. Without any afterthought, I can use a bus downtown everywhere for just one or two stops. I can park my car somewhere outside, near a tram station and take a 10 min. ride into the centre and do not need to find out which of more than a dozent ticket options is the one I need.

All of this is mainly psychological. Even before the 9-Euro ticket, using local transport was cheaper than driving a car. And admittedly, there are still some advantages of the car, most notably that you don't have to obey a time-table. But as you might think of your car as just waiting for you to get in and go, so it is now with any bus, tram or local/regional train.

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#107

Post by ygra » Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:03 PM UTC

chrisandchris wrote: post #105

Tainnor wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've definitely had my "I hate DB" moments in my life and experiences similar to the one you describe, but for me, most of the time, I don't experience major issues (I don't count "train is half an hour late" to be a major issue, although I agree that it's kind of laughable that this happens so often - but I got used to it). It's definitely easier if you don't have to change trains or you don't take a super late trai…

That's an interesting viewpoint and as someone living in the south of you, I have a hard time to understand why 30min is not a major issue. I feel more like after 5min, it's way to late :D ...

Most times I take the train is visiting my parents and it's a 9–10 hour journey. Considering that total time, half an hour certainly isn't that big of a deal. And by car the same distance would take nearly the same time, if not more, as the motorway isn't clear of other cars whenever you travel.

Admittedly, the most probable leg of the journey to get late or be disruped in any way is the very first one. Living in a town that has no long-distance rail connection you're forced to use local trains to the next major city anyway.

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#108

Post by lorenzfx » Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #85

_Microft wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lufthansa rarely gets "Personenschaden" ("injury to persons", an euphemism for "suicide") on their flight paths while Deutsche Bahn has frequently to deal with that. A delayed intercity express train definitely delays departure of other trains that are considered Anschluss(züge) ("connecting trains"). It then ripples through the network.

Then how do other countries get to a reliable service? Japan, Switzerland, France…

Mostly by spending more money. Especially France and Japan built special rails only to be used by high speed trains. While those exist in Germany, there are less of them and they mostly don't reach from station to station but instead near the city centers high speed trains share rails with slower trains.

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#109

Post by gpvos » Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

martinald wrote: post #78

Is there actually the capacity to offer this? I understand it excludes IC/ICE trains but surely going to induce a hell of a lot of demand on regional trains?

Yes, there is a lot of concern about that; it might even drive away existing customers. Some extra trains are being added, but the ability to do that is obviously limited.

Re: Germany is offering a summer of cheap trains

#110

Post by Tainnor » Mon, May 30, 2022, 4:35 PM UTC

chrisandchris wrote: post #105

Tainnor wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've definitely had my "I hate DB" moments in my life and experiences similar to the one you describe, but for me, most of the time, I don't experience major issues (I don't count "train is half an hour late" to be a major issue, although I agree that it's kind of laughable that this happens so often - but I got used to it). It's definitely easier if you don't have to change trains or you don't take a super late trai…

That's an interesting viewpoint and as someone living in the south of you, I have a hard time to understand why 30min is not a major issue. I feel more like after 5min, it's way to late :D ...

Well, it depends. For a half or one hour trip, of course that would be a huge delay (but that also doesn't happen so often except for some areas like NRW...), but I'm talking more about >4h trips without changing trains, and I really don't care that much about half an hour more or less in that case.

Of course, I'd prefer that trains were as punctual as in Switzerland but what can I do?