My students cheated... a lot • Hacker News Board

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#961

Post by paskozdilar » Mon, May 30, 2022, 6:30 AM UTC

mordae wrote: post #709

hnarn wrote: post #525

Threads like these are always frustrating, because as usual people (programmers in this case) freely air their opinions on how schools are broken with phrases like “we need to fix the system”. As someone who studied pedagogy for years and quit due to an immense frustration with exactly this — how broken the system is — I would encourage you to entertain the thought that maybe, you as a person who is almost in all cas…

> do not have a good understanding of how exactly this system should be fixed, and that it’s not broken for fun but because there are some very difficult unresolved issues. Because it conflates two things with conflicting incentives. This could and should resolve nicely. 1. Spreading knowledge 2. Certifying competence To get e.g. a RHCE you may or may not attend the course. You may get the materials elsewhere and stu…

Well formulated.

It seems to me that a lot of problems in the real-world can be tracked down to unnecessary dependencies (in this case, having to attend college in order to get certified).

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#962

Post by vehementi » Mon, May 30, 2022, 6:48 AM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #634

DeathArrow wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never gave a fuck about grades. For some courses I had below average marks, for others I was the best. I studied because I wanted to genuinely understand how things work and how I can solve problems and how, beginning with one ideea I can extend it or come up with an entirely different idea. And I know I will get downvoted for saying this, but for me, programming without having a solid understanding of CS backgroun…

Well it's probably down to the harm done if the standards are lowered vs. the gain. Incompetent doctor? People die. Incompetent chemist? People die, or at least there's substantial material damage. When it comes to mathematicians and physicists they only ever have any real impact when they roll up their sleeves, open matlab or R and turn their theoretical work into something practical. Does that make them programmers…

Cause an outage (or write a bug that causes an outage) for like, hospital software, or software that distributes medical supplies during a hurricaine, or distributes vaccines and ... people die. Maybe not directly because it's not your hand with a scalpel slipping but critical things rely on software.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#963

Post by vintermann » Mon, May 30, 2022, 6:58 AM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #525

Threads like these are always frustrating, because as usual people (programmers in this case) freely air their opinions on how schools are broken with phrases like “we need to fix the system”. As someone who studied pedagogy for years and quit due to an immense frustration with exactly this — how broken the system is — I would encourage you to entertain the thought that maybe, you as a person who is almost in all cas…

> So what’s the solution then? Well, maybe we should start by rolling back this common conception that when it comes to schools, everyone’s opinion matters an equal amount, and then listen to the teachers and academics.

Yes, because they've proved they know things by passing through the system and getting good grades. Oh wait...

Sorry for the joke, but seriously, you can't expect us civilians to shut up. Leaving education to educators is as pernicious as leaving law just to lawyers, or journalism just to journalists. In all cases, the outcomes are everyone's business, and because there are real conflicts of interest here (and not just disagreement on facts) it can't just be delegated to experts. Even calling for it will make people rightly suspicious of your agenda.

Unlike with law or journalism though, pretty much everyone has A LOT of experience with the educational system in practice, by being on the receiving end of it for 12+ years. There's a challenge with sharing our experiences in a fruitful way and not just shouting over each other, sure, but suck it up: we have opinions about what education should be and can be, and we won't shut up and leave it to you.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#964

Post by Gtex555 » Mon, May 30, 2022, 8:14 AM UTC

andrewflnr wrote: post #205

Despite this teacher's miraculous extraction of some character growth from a handful of the cheaters, I still think he should have just failed all of them as soon as he had an airtight case against them. There is no moral or practical justification for tolerating cheaters. They make a mockery of honest students and the higher education as a whole. They're a menace to the society into which they're released with a sta…

There are many studies that show that harsher punishments don't reduce crime, infact they make people act in very extreme ways once they realize they have already been caught. What you want is revenge since you seem to be a student who never copied , unfortunately revenge is no way to run a society(Pro-tip rehabilitation is the way to run society). Personally I think degree hold too much weight on one's future and I have little to no respect for them so cheating in a quiz is no big deal.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#965

Post by Gtex555 » Mon, May 30, 2022, 8:22 AM UTC

w0mbat wrote: post #934

This professor seems very pleased with himself but I think he handled this in the worst way possible. He should have said on the WhatsApp group, right at the beginning, "I am your professor,and I monitor this gc. You can use the gc to discuss the class and ethically help each other, but if you engage in exam and quiz cheating on here I will see it, and I will fail you. If you open or join a new secret gc to circumven…

I agree he seems to almost get off on it, like he is getting revenge on all the classmates who cheated when he was in school. Only redeeming thing about him is the lengths he eventually went to to force them to learn and give them a second chance despite his weird plagiarism fetish.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#966

Post by Gtex555 » Mon, May 30, 2022, 8:29 AM UTC

l33t2328 wrote: post #90

fumeux_fume wrote: post #22

Exams and cheating are just parts of the same problem. It's unfortunate that academia can't wrap its mind around this and design better learning experiences for students and teachers.

Students are mostly not that interested in learning

thank you haha, they just want that degree at the end.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#967

Post by Gtex555 » Mon, May 30, 2022, 8:46 AM UTC

andrewflnr wrote: post #187

PheonixPharts wrote: post #101

> There were 100+ students in the class > I was suffering technical difficulties while giving online lectures. > It was extremely demoralizing to teach to a class that was blatantly cheating the entire time. How demoralizing do you think it is to be paying a fair bit of money (or more likely taking on a fair bit of debt) to be just 1 of 100+ students in a poorly functioning online class? To be clear, I'm not blaming…

> not having a enough empathy for these students Are you fucking kidding me? After the absurd lengths he went to to give them chance after chance after they kept cheating, lied to his face about it, possibly threatened each other with violence, and repeatedly plagiarized their apologies for plagiarizing? After all this, you have the gall to claim he doesn't have enough empathy ? What does it take, in your view?

"threats of violence"...........seriously ?? haha

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#968

Post by Gtex555 » Mon, May 30, 2022, 8:56 AM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #809

Way too soft. I went through all of college without participating in anything like that, and you know why? I'm not a scumbag parasite. These rotten apples should have been filtered out of the system long ago. Their place in society is shoveling manure, not wasting valuable space in higher education.

You'd make a great leader.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#969

Post by the_lucifer » Mon, May 30, 2022, 9:03 AM UTC

spicyusername wrote: post #802

AdamH12113 wrote: post #431

>I knew that my students wanted a second chance, I wasn’t sure how many of them would take it. Part of completing the academic integrity assignment was a tacit admission of cheating, and some students seemed set on not admitting to anything. So, I was thrilled when I received the first completed academic integrity assignment. >What did the student have to say? There were many full sentences and as I read them I got t…

> How broken of a person do you have to be to reflexively cheat on a simple assignment intended to give you a second chance after you’ve been caught cheating already? My opinion is that most people only go to college these days because they perceive it as the only path to a good paying job, not because they are terribly interested in the material. Given that assumption, it's easy for me to understand why people would…

100%. People I know here at a T-20 Southern California school just cheated their way through classes, just grinded leetcode through university and have high paying FAANG jobs. It's just a matter of what you want from an university education and why you want a degree tbh.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#970

Post by mslupski1 » Mon, May 30, 2022, 9:53 AM UTC

How is this person teaching anybody if they can't even properly write, format, and cut out all the bull**t from their own article? This reads like a first-grader's story at best. I have zero credibility that this even happened. And the fucking gifs throughout the article... give me a break.