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My students cheated... a lot

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Re: My students cheated... a lot

#941

Post by sosull »

anonymousDan wrote: post #630
tomerv wrote: post #543

I had to stop in the middle of the article due to all the annoying animations. But something that stood out to me is this: > For consequences, I came up with a three strikes and you are out rule. and then > I wasn’t ready to inform them about what was going on until I had processed all of the facts, so I just pressed on with the lectures. My goal was to have all of the forms filled out and emailed before the next mid…

Give me a break. The professor went above and beyond to be understanding. The mental gymnastics from many on this thread seeking to blame anyone but the students lack of integrity is pathetic. It's from the Boris Johnson school of 'I didn't know it was a party'.

I mean, the man was ambushed by cake.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#942

Post by styren »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #911
styren wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've personally never witnessed any cheating, heard any friends or students even allude to doing so, I never cheated myself and I can't even comprehend how you would cheat at most of the coursework I did in uni in Sweden. Sure you could copy your friends code, but you still had to present it to a TA who would certainly get suspicious if you couldn't answer to what you had written. Ditto for exams and essays/reports.…

> I've personally never witnessed any cheating, heard any friends or students even allude to doing so, I never cheated myself and I can't even comprehend how you would cheat at most of the coursework I did in uni in Sweden. For most of my life I would've been frightened to even say so, or risk accusations of being a "swot", "teachers pet" or as the Aussies call it, "a tall poppy". But the attitude that it's "normal"…

To clarify, I'm not saying I would never cheat. Rather that cheating meant more complications and risks than completing my coursework in the way it was intended.

If we were given take-home multiple choice forms to be judged by I'm certain people would cheat. But I've never seen that, possibly because it feels like a pretty lousy (and lazy) way of evaluating and educating students.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#943

Post by styren »

bckr wrote: post #891
styren wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've personally never witnessed any cheating, heard any friends or students even allude to doing so, I never cheated myself and I can't even comprehend how you would cheat at most of the coursework I did in uni in Sweden. Sure you could copy your friends code, but you still had to present it to a TA who would certainly get suspicious if you couldn't answer to what you had written. Ditto for exams and essays/reports.…

What was the average number of students in your classes, and the average number of TAs?

IIRC 150 students and maybe 6-10 TAs per class

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#944

Post by seunosewa »

chociej wrote: post #154

Look, I was a pretty crappy student in a lot of ways. But this thread has a few instances of folks implying that, especially at more "elite" schools, blatant cheating is practically routine and everyone does it. Again, I was not a model student, but it's pretty maddening to hear that. I didn't cheat to get my degree. I'd ask that you all not rationalize your cheating to the point of making your successors feel comfor…

I don't think anyone has denied the existence of students who don't cheat. If 80% of a class cheats, that means 20% don't. You may have been among those.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#945

Post by kergonath »

qsort wrote: post #729
nicolas_t wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HOW do you measure knowledge? And when you decide how, how do you scale it? I have experienced good tests and bad tests. I studied in France, tests were open book with no multiple choice questions, only problems to solve. This approach scales badly and is a lot of work for the professor grading but it measures knowledge. The problems were long, had few questions besides describing the problem and maybe a few questi…

I don't know if it's popular in France, but another very simple idea that eliminates cheating entirely is oral exams. They're still done a lot in Italy. I once literally inverted a binary tree on a whiteboard :)

> I don't know if it's popular in France, but another very simple idea that eliminates cheating entirely is oral exams.

As an introvert, I am very happy not to have had too many oral exams during my studies (in France ;) ). I think I agree with you in principle, but to me that would have been torture.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#946

Post by swat535 »

gjm11 wrote: post #727
DeathArrow wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never gave a fuck about grades. For some courses I had below average marks, for others I was the best. I studied because I wanted to genuinely understand how things work and how I can solve problems and how, beginning with one ideea I can extend it or come up with an entirely different idea. And I know I will get downvoted for saying this, but for me, programming without having a solid understanding of CS backgroun…

> I know I will get downvoted for saying this I doubt it, but I downvoted you for saying that . No comment anywhere has ever been improved by adding "I know I will get downvoted for saying this, but". Please don't do it.

These kind of passive-aggressive replies always bother me, they don't contribute much to the discussion either. Please don't do it.

There are very _few_ reasons why you should downvote a comment. I found parent's comment great, so I upvoted it to counter your unfair downvote.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#947

Post by TheBigSalad »

sanderjd wrote: post #804

How is this kind of "cheating" any different than study groups? When I was in school we would have small study groups where we would collaborate on figuring out homework answers. Maybe this was also cheating, but I don't think so; it was among the most enriching experiences in school and certainly a hell of a lot more like the working world than it would be to toil in solitary silence.

Helping each other understand the material means you are learning. You'd do well on a test. They were sharing answers and then all failed the tests when they weren't able to. Anything that gets you a good grade without learning the material is cheating.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#948

Post by willio58 »

zcbenz wrote: post #767

I really admire the author of this post, He is very responsible of his students and takes his course seriously, how lucky his students are. When I was in college I was attending a course teaching to build C++ project, the professor checks plagiarism by checking the creation date of source code files, since the project was built step by step with new files being added progressively. I was being perfectionism about my…

I had a professor who would do this. I scored low once because I always did homework last minute. That’s when I learned how got actually works, and how you can edit timestamps on commits. That’s helped a couple times in my work life too.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#950

Post by bradlys »

vehementi wrote: post #920
bradlys wrote: post #264

As someone who “cheated” - it was a requirement to pass classes. “Professors” (researchers and post-docs who hated lecturing) were in a constant arms race against the students. We were assigned problems routinely that we would ask the professor to solve in class - they could not do it. They would fail it themselves. This happened in multiple subjects. Many classes also had students not showing up if it was clear that…

Nah this is a situation like someone else pointed out where you were an underpeformer and surrounded yourself with other underperformers/cheaters, and then assumed everyone else was like you, but in actuality you were in the minority.

Considering it was a top 10 school - sounds like quite an ignorant statement. Most of my peers are at FAANG, founded companies, etc. (as am I obviously)

Many of us are still quite competent. The “professors” were just horrible.

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