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Food security and the coming storm

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Re: Food security and the coming storm

#201

Post by stefan_ »

lotusmars wrote: post #190
stefan_ wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to board a plane to Moscow then?

Actually a lot of Moscow tech workers came back after fleeing initialy to Yerevan, Tbilisi, Baku and Istanbul. Most bought Bloomberg propaganda and were expecting a crash. It never came. On the other hand Moscow feels great, restaurants are packed and most of people I know are back to their consumerist habits (sans some Western clothing brands). Russian consumer exhaled and watches Ukrainian war like a soap opera on…

I don't understand, please read the comment, do not just press "next 100 words" on a Markov chain.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#202

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #15
sdoering wrote: post #4

I recently had a conversation with an organic farmer. While he is able to pass on at least some of his increased costs for energy and fuel through direct sales and cooperatively organized distribution channels, his conventionally farmed colleagues have a bigger problem. They have long-term purchase contracts that fix the prices for milk, meat or vegetables. In the case of milk and meat in particular, production costs…

I'm less pessimistic. People in the US, and increasingly the rest of the world are on a diet that just isn't good for them: lots of low quality carbs with cheap fat and artificial flavorings and not a whole lot of nutritional value. Arguably, a large part of the population is eating way more than is good for them and not enough good quality food. And it's not just a money issue: it's a skill and knowledge issue. Peop…

This reads like a bad attempt at comedy. There is fear of global starvation and you recommend baking your own bread and a more mindful lifestyle, even including the stereotype of poor people in poor countries living in harmony with nature.

Just to be clear: rising prices doesn't mean it gets more expensive to eat. It means it's getting more expensive to eat until it is expensive enough to no longer be affordable for some people to eat.

Yes, a lot of food is also wasted, and meat production is always wasteful. It is perfectly possible to envision a world where everyone is fed even under current conditions. But its delusional to believe this crisis will easily reshuffle everything and immediately lead to that outcome.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#203

Post by thriftwy »

lotusmars wrote: post #165
thriftwy wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia and Ukraine got very little from being major food exporters. For Russia it meant that wheat profits are just a dent of oil&gas profits, and for Ukraine it meant perennial poverty and international aid seeking. Both were getting scolded for slacking economically. If both countries were to be compensated 'fairly' for the wheat, maybe there would be no war right now. Food prices may never 'recover' to those unsus…

> If both countries were to be compensated 'fairly' for the wheat, maybe there would be no war right now. Wow. Now this is the Putin apologist take I've never heard before, and I've heard a lot of them watching Russian TV.

Ukraine has failed to become economically solvent - it did not even grow to 1991 levels. So it had to cling to somebody else and eventually it tore apart (in 2014)

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#204

Post by Victerius »

guerrilla wrote: post #121
tomjen3 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That should be no problem: stop them at the border.

Which would kill them and cause massive suffering, so... no? I don't understand how people can be both this cruel and want to propagate such a norm: What happens when it's your turn to starve outside the gate? This kind of rhetoric is _not_ in your self-interest. Nobody is immune to the potential to need to migrate.

> Nobody is immune to the potential to need to migrate.

People in wealthy, food-secure countries are. (immune to the potential to need to migrate)

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#205

Post by Ekaros »

codenesium wrote: post #74
gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large issue is where do you put the brackish or super-salted water? Desalination is great as long as you have the waste impacts managed.

You pump it back out into the ocean.

Sounds expensive to pump it to wide enough area for not to cause issues to marine life. The total amount in context isn't an issue, but the spikes in concentration is.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#206

Post by redisman »

phpisthebest wrote: post #50
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For all the "Baby formula shortage" media coverage, how many stories have included a recipe for alternatives to commercial formula? Mostly I've seen admonitions to not try making baby food at home, which is incredibly useless for people trying to feed kids. Thanks for pointing this out. It's like we've forgotten how to function as humans in some respect. Baby formula isn't some magical combination of ingredients. A…

>>It's like we've forgotten how to function as humans in some respect. It is not that we have forgotten, the social and governmental structures have been for a long time pushing for dependence upon corporations / government and less self reliance. Self Reliance is something that is to be socially mocked, "survivalist", "prepper", etc are seen as derogatory terms. Even community level reliance has systemically been re…

I would mainly blame capitalism and globalization. It’s very hard to stick to your principles when you can get everything for a 10th of the price/effort from Walmart. It’s also completely impossible to be self reliant in any mid sized or bigger metro area because you just don’t have enough land to produce food and energy.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#207

Post by Ekaros »

thriftwy wrote: post #114
stevenjgarner wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably fine for small-scale use, but on a planetary scale increased salinity could dramatically influence marine biodiversity, not to mention climate from thermohaline circulation disruption [1] https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_currents/05...

It's not possible to change ocean salinity by any measurable amount by desalination. Except maybe for some very closed off seas, which are already less saline than the ocean.

It is in the water cycle anyway, so yes globally really makes no difference. But the localized levels of salinity certainly can be effected and be detrimental.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#208

Post by analog31 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #15
sdoering wrote: post #4

I recently had a conversation with an organic farmer. While he is able to pass on at least some of his increased costs for energy and fuel through direct sales and cooperatively organized distribution channels, his conventionally farmed colleagues have a bigger problem. They have long-term purchase contracts that fix the prices for milk, meat or vegetables. In the case of milk and meat in particular, production costs…

I'm less pessimistic. People in the US, and increasingly the rest of the world are on a diet that just isn't good for them: lots of low quality carbs with cheap fat and artificial flavorings and not a whole lot of nutritional value. Arguably, a large part of the population is eating way more than is good for them and not enough good quality food. And it's not just a money issue: it's a skill and knowledge issue. Peop…

My family bakes our own bread. The kids really don't like store-bought bread unless it's the super expensive stuff. We prepare all of our own meals. We use relatively generic flour that comes in 5 pound bags.

The main thing I've learned is:

Get over everything having to be as yummy as prepared food, unless you're willing to hire a psychologist and a chemist, and a cardiologist. You're paying for that stuff twice: First to consume it, second, to get rid of it in the gym.

Get over the need for infinite variety. My family has a number of meals that we can prepare quickly from whatever's in the fridge. Tofu or beans figure into nearly every meal.

Figure out shortcuts and substitutions.

No knowledge worker really works productively more than about 5 hours per day. It's not like the rest of someone's time is credibly all that valuable.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#209

Post by redisman »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #197
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Another: https://jeffreycarter.substack.com/p/no-one-is-talking-about... Few seem to want to talk about this, they want to talk about how coming shortages will best be solved by giving them power or at the least listening to their advice. For all the "Baby formula shortage" media coverage, how many stories have included a recipe for alternatives to commercial formula? Mostly I've seen admonitions to not try making ba…

It's hard to take any food shortage articles seriously when we feed >40% of the calories we grow to cattle alone. Sure, more people might go hungry because we do not allocate food well. But we are so far from actually running out of calories that the idea is ridiculous.

Sure but thinking that the American people don’t implode if the stores are empty and you’re sent a bag of corn every month for your calories is also not realistic.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#210

Post by Throwawayaerlei »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #197
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Another: https://jeffreycarter.substack.com/p/no-one-is-talking-about... Few seem to want to talk about this, they want to talk about how coming shortages will best be solved by giving them power or at the least listening to their advice. For all the "Baby formula shortage" media coverage, how many stories have included a recipe for alternatives to commercial formula? Mostly I've seen admonitions to not try making ba…

It's hard to take any food shortage articles seriously when we feed >40% of the calories we grow to cattle alone. Sure, more people might go hungry because we do not allocate food well. But we are so far from actually running out of calories that the idea is ridiculous.

One way of looking at the fodder for cattle is that the human palatable parts of it are reserves. We can "downshift," downsize our herds and redirect that without redisman's "send you a bag of corn every month" (plus calcium hydroxide for nixtamalization) extreme which more belongs to something like a post-nuclear war scenario.

The big problem is going to be the places that don't have reserves of most anything including money, like the parts of the Middle East and thereabouts that normally get their wheat from Russia and the Ukraine, the latter long called "the breadbasket of the world."

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