Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

news.ycombinator.com

111–120 of 182 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#111
post #28

I was a C student in high school. I never took a math class beyond basic algebra. I started from Khan Academy's first exercise when I was 33 years old. It seems silly looking back that I was solving problems on the number line as an adult. At that time, around 10 years ago, Khan Academy had excellent coverage through trigonometry and single variable calculus. Once I reached that point I went to my local community col…

Germane: https://nautil.us/how-i-rewired-my-brain-to-become-fluent-in...

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#112
post #70

I've done this and would echo the good advice you've already gotten about Khan Academy but I think the comments in this thread are skipping over the most important part: pace. Work slowly. Don't move on until you really "get" the concept you're working with. Some topics might "click" right away and others might take weeks of bashing your head against the wall until your brain makes sense of it. That's okay. It can de…

I'll just mention: From a scientific perspective, this is absolutely the wrong advice. If you couldn't understand something yesterday, that's very good evidence you won't make sense of it today. You should work hard, go deep, and try hard problems, but if you fail to understand something after putting in the effort, just move onto something else. Learn a few unrelated things, and come back. Much of the time, if you c…

Math professor here.

I see students hit a wall in linear algebra, very good at "trained seal" but profoundly resentful that the time has come to go meta: Part of one's learning has to be investment in reflection and experiment on how one learns.

They generally believe that intelligence is innate, not deliberate gardening. There were thousands of people with Michael Jordan's body (alas, I'm not one) but he spent decades creating the athlete he became. Einstein found math difficult. It's like running: If you find running boring, you're not running hard enough. Math is a constant struggle, like mountaineering, and you shape, invent your mathematical mind. Those of us who love math (or mountaineering) are drawn to the struggle.

One syndrome I've seen often enough to classify: A student is uncomfortable with their calculus background. They want to pick the hardest calculus book they've heard of (often Apostol) and retreat to a desert island till they've mastered every word. I cringe in horror, and try to explain what's wrong with this approach.

It is widely observed that grad students learn four times faster than undergraduates. My first few years of grad school, it felt like I doubled what I knew every year. It was profoundly depressing when this subsided; I could have "been someone" with just a couple more doublings. What was going on?

Grad students learn what they need any given day, for goals they've set for themselves. Undergrads are taking on faith what authorities say is good for them. It's far easier to understand something when you see the point as you're learning it.

I know few mathematicians who read math comfortably, as if reading a novel. We mostly get angry and go think on our own, then return to realize that's just what the article said. Communication conventions in math are horrendous; one writes crappy machine code, then asks the reader to reverse engineer one's thoughts. Anyone in the tech sector knows how easily reading someone else's code can be "just kill me now" territory. As horrendous languages go, mathematical notation is a profound achievement. Nevertheless, beginners feel inadequate when faced with the inadequacies of mathematical notation to convey intuition.

If one wants to learn math, one needs to learn how to play, whatever that means. Find anything whatsoever in the text that leads to an example one can expand beyond the text. Does the text remind you of a pattern you've seen elsewhere? Perhaps the author just isn't saying. Play on your own, trying to decide if the ideas are in fact related.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#113
there are fundamental math that appear in all other math. i think calculus is one such math, and perhaps probability (even more true given you’re pursuing machine learning). for both subjects i almost self-teach using calculus made easy (https://www.calculusmadeeasy.org/) and probability for the enthusiastic beginner (https://scholar.harvard.edu/david-morin/probability). both are fairly self-contained although the sometimes take shortcuts that can be dizzying at times. but since you’ll proceed at your own pace, you’re about to make a diversion to investigate, further, why they were able to take those shortcuts. check them out and see if they help. otherwise i’d like to know what worked for you :)

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#114
The beautiful thing about learning math is it is incredibly well curated up to about 3rd year university. Suggest re-taking the high school courses over again via correspondence. Since you are interested and motivated it will not take you long at all. Then move on to first year calculus and linear algebra - either by correspondence or audit the actual class. I don't think there are any shortcuts up to this point. After this it is reasonable to self-curate the material based on your particular interests.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#115
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll just mention: From a scientific perspective, this is absolutely the wrong advice. If you couldn't understand something yesterday, that's very good evidence you won't make sense of it today. You should work hard, go deep, and try hard problems, but if you fail to understand something after putting in the effort, just move onto something else. Learn a few unrelated things, and come back. Much of the time, if you c…

Math professor here. I see students hit a wall in linear algebra, very good at "trained seal" but profoundly resentful that the time has come to go meta: Part of one's learning has to be investment in reflection and experiment on how one learns. They generally believe that intelligence is innate, not deliberate gardening. There were thousands of people with Michael Jordan's body (alas, I'm not one) but he spent decad…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#116

What helped me get a grip on learning mathematics was learning to prove theorems. Working through Daniel Velleman's book "How to Prove It" (the only pre requisite is that you can understand boolean logic, which programmers have no problem with), and then a Set Theory book (I used Enderton) set me up to tackle (proof based) Linear Algebra, Analysis etc. Just my personal experience. Hope this helps.

I think theorems already presuppose some basic understanding of algebra, but I might be wrong. It really depends on what OP actually knows and how deep he wants to learn and in what direction

I wonder about this myself. I've always had a much easier time learning things that makes sense from first principles rather than something that I need to just take for granted, the latter being the case with the first 12 years of my own math education. The latter is much more difficult to form a mental model around.

Would it be possible to teach mathematics by theorem proving ab initio? I guess conventional algebra would be hard to digest for a first grader, but I maybe something like the Peano axioms can be thought of as rules for a game that the students can play, where subsequent arithmetic lessons will be about finding shortcuts to the tedious application of the rules in order to solve problems.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#117
I did the same as you, literally starting with the number line and basic factorisation around 10 years ago, using this book: https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/engineering-mathematics-978135...

It's designed for self-study, and it together with "advanced engineering mathematics" by the same author covers all the math from the first two years of a 3 year UK engineering degree (they don't have any gen ed requirements so my sense is the material covered is equivalent to the math from a US engineering degree.

At some point, if you want to learn even more advanced math, you need to learn to do proofs, but you don't need a lot of mathematical knowledge to learn how to prove things, probably someone with a good high school math knowledge coupdnprsrn the basics, using a book like chartrand "mathematical proofs" which for the first five or six chapters only requires algebra knowledge.

I now have an MS in math and statistics -self-learning is great, but once you get to the "proofy" math, it's really helpful to get feedback on your proofs from someone who knows what they are doing. I took some summer math classes at berkeley, and then did my MS at cal state east bay, and found that the teaching was much better at cal state, which I would guess is because they mostly don't get paid to do research (small sample I know, but talking to many friends doing math classes at berkeley, my experience seemed representative). So that kind of school (cal state) might not be the best if you wanted to do a top tier PhD (though every year we have a couple of people getting admitted somewhere for a math PhD program), but for actually just learning and intellectual satisfaction, it was great!

I would second Khan academy, to quickly get an overview of a topic, it's great. But you don't really know something mathematical until you've done enough problems to be fluent in that area, which I think causes problems for some people who "understand" a topic but move on before they have "mastered" it IMO.

Feel free to contact me if you want to chat or have questions

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#118

You have most of the mathematics needed to understand ML in one free book, Mathematics for Machine Learning [1]. It covers just about anything you need. It would be better to study algebra, calculus, some trig and then statistics, it will give you a better knowledge, but this is a more condensed and a faster way to put you on track. If you have time, you can go through it in one month. [1] https://mml-book.github.io/

Thank you for this, it seems like a great resource, and completely free too.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#119
post #70

I've done this and would echo the good advice you've already gotten about Khan Academy but I think the comments in this thread are skipping over the most important part: pace. Work slowly. Don't move on until you really "get" the concept you're working with. Some topics might "click" right away and others might take weeks of bashing your head against the wall until your brain makes sense of it. That's okay. It can de…

I'll just mention: From a scientific perspective, this is absolutely the wrong advice. If you couldn't understand something yesterday, that's very good evidence you won't make sense of it today. You should work hard, go deep, and try hard problems, but if you fail to understand something after putting in the effort, just move onto something else. Learn a few unrelated things, and come back. Much of the time, if you c…

I personally found that I would have to keep exposing my brain to the same mathematical concept many times over days or weeks by doing problems when I could and visualizing the math in my brain when I was doing other things. Over time it felt like my brain was gradually getting "imprinted" with the shape of the math ideas, but you had to be gentle and do it over a period of days to weeks, otherwise it's like the math shape would just squish your brain instead of letting your brain adapt to it :)

Re: Ask HN: How to learn math from zero for adults?

#120
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely need to check out 3Blue1Brown on youtube, especially for visual learners.

I think that the fact that there are special types of learners have been debunked thoroughly. Veritasium recently made a video, too [0]. 3b1b is a fantastic supplementary resource. But you can't start with it, or use it as your primary resource. That would be a mistake. [0]: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rhgwIhB58PA

That video is not convincing, at least for me, wrong style learning is more tiring. I can read a book about a subject all day, but I can only listen to about an hour of lecture a day.

I'll absorb the same amount - during that first hour, but after that nothing further is getting in my head.

Also the computerized thing about a diagram vs words isn't a learning style difference - both of those are visual, just one is more effective (obviously a diagram is better).

His on-the-street test is also bad, someone with a different style will, for example, say the image name out loud, if they need it auditory.

Post reply on HN