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What would a recession mean for developers?

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Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#121

Post by KptMarchewa »

vinyl7 wrote: post #90
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #2

The market being harder for juniors seems correct from what I’m seeing. I’ve been looking frequently for the last month to see what’s out there, and virtually no one I’ve noticed is seeking junior developers.

I've been searching for my first junior/entry level position for 4 months now. There's very few junior/entry positions, and the ones that are posted are asking for 2-3 years experience, and a Bachelors/Masters/PHD... for web development . The market is either asking for senior developers at senior pay, or mid-senior level developers at entry level pay. I'm not the kind of person who would job hop every 2 years like w…

>I'm not the kind of person who would job hop every 2 years like what seems to be common in the industry.

...you haven't even started. If you were regularly getting offers with 50%, 100%, or 200% more than you currently earn you'd rethink that position pretty quick.

Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#122

Post by bigDinosaur »

414techie wrote: post #89
bigDinosaur wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they wanted more than a DFS or BFS or similar with loop detection? The teleports sound like a fun twist, although I'm not sure they change that much since from a graph perspective presumably they're just another edge?

Yeah, but does that kind of problem really exist on a regular basis for a test engineer on that team? I doubt it.

It's probably not that relevant to the job, but as far as weird questions go it's not too bad. It's presumably not leetcode hard, basically.

Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#123

Post by FastMonkey »

hamdouni wrote: post #99
dougmwne wrote: post #52

What if, and bear with me here for a minute, the software fields are going to fare the best out of everyone? The value of tech investment is no longer in question like it was in 2000. The world's largest companies are tech companies, and it's now accepted wisdom that software is not a cost, but a rocket ship and the rocket ships have just become reusable (due to the magic of software I might add). Maybe it's everyone…

What if IA replace coder or no-code makes coder useless ? Maybe the same heartless MBA would reduce programmer staff ?

With people falling over themselves to prove how well work from home works, it's more likely that the jobs just go abroad.

Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#124

Post by happymellon »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #109
bluefirebrand wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't worked with a linked list since first or second year university, more than 10 years ago, nor have I had much of a reason to do character by character string analysis. I could probably work these problems out, but I might not seem too confident about it.

It’s a basic data structure. I have been able to pass these questions without a formal University education just on logic alone. It’s just basic usage of objects in the case of a JavaScript implementation.

20 years of software development, I don't remember the last time that I actually encountered a linked list in the wild.

> It’s just basic usage of objects in the case of a JavaScript implementation.

Just because you would make a linked list via objects doesn't mean that anyone would actually do it.

Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#125

Post by usrbinbash »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #71
usrbinbash wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a significant backlash at least in the startup space to "whiteboard coding" Good. Whiteboard coding is probably one of the least useful methods I have ever seen to evaluate candidates. It tells me nothing about the persons actual qualification and can be gamed.

While I agree that it won't tell you if a candidate is good, it will often show very quickly that a candidate is absolutely terrible. My warm-up questions are usually something like "reverse a singly-linked-list" or "check if a string is a palindrome", and you would be surprised at how many people have just no clue on how to do it, even with a lot of help (and I work in a FAANG so we should be getting decent candidat…

> it will often show very quickly that a candidate is absolutely terrible.

It CAN show that.

Problem is; even a terrible candidate can prepare, knowing the kinds of things that will likely be tested, by memorizing the solutions to these very specific problems.

Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#126

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #113
kcartlidge wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My warm-up questions are usually something like "reverse a singly-linked-list" or "check if a string is a palindrome" I've written sites, apps, ORMs, enterprise tools, code generators, FAAS platforms from scratch, exporters for DOCX and EPUB, etc etc for decades. I've been junior, mid, senior, lead of two teams. I've transitioned companies to cloud, created data warehouses, built BI universes. All sorts of stuff ov…

Those are pretty basic algorithmic questions, even if somebody's never heard of a linked list or a palindrome, anyone with even a minimal understanding of algorithms should be able to describe in pseudo code how to solve them. They're not guaranteeing that an applicant is necessarily right for the job, but they do separate the chaff from the wheat proverbially speaking.

This is the problem with this interviews and FANGs shit. They separate nothing. But because ppl in these companies did this doing interviews, and they have such a fucking high opinnion of themselves, they think the only good people are the ones that are like them. `I can do this and I'm the greatest (their own opinion reinforced by other idiots in the company) so anyone that can't aren't worthy of my time/welcomed here`.

But then you work with these idiots that can reverse a linked list in other companies and they can't organize code to save their lives. They use patterns and shit they used in facebook everywhere, even when they shouldn't because they always so smart and right.

(yes, after cleaning up code for shitty ex facebookers and ex netflixers, my opinion of the 'wheat' boils down to they may be wheat, but they infested with parasites and bugs and rotten at the core, but hey, what do I know, just been doing sw development for 25+ years, published author and worked on stuff that most here use daily, I'm just chaf because I don't want to work for FANGs)

Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#127

Post by coldtea »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #109
bluefirebrand wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't worked with a linked list since first or second year university, more than 10 years ago, nor have I had much of a reason to do character by character string analysis. I could probably work these problems out, but I might not seem too confident about it.

It’s a basic data structure. I have been able to pass these questions without a formal University education just on logic alone. It’s just basic usage of objects in the case of a JavaScript implementation.

>I have been able to pass these questions without a formal University education just on logic alone.

So you'd be great for a job whose task is doing coding interviews then!

Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#128

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #113
kcartlidge wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My warm-up questions are usually something like "reverse a singly-linked-list" or "check if a string is a palindrome" I've written sites, apps, ORMs, enterprise tools, code generators, FAAS platforms from scratch, exporters for DOCX and EPUB, etc etc for decades. I've been junior, mid, senior, lead of two teams. I've transitioned companies to cloud, created data warehouses, built BI universes. All sorts of stuff ov…

Those are pretty basic algorithmic questions, even if somebody's never heard of a linked list or a palindrome, anyone with even a minimal understanding of algorithms should be able to describe in pseudo code how to solve them. They're not guaranteeing that an applicant is necessarily right for the job, but they do separate the chaff from the wheat proverbially speaking.

[deleted]

Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#129

Post by dorchadas »

DeathArrow wrote: post #101
dorchadas wrote: post #63

This is something worrying me, looking for a junior role. I was a teacher for 5 years (math and physics) and recently went back to get a masters in Theoretical Physics and Applied Maths, mostly leaning towards the latter. Lots of data science-y stuff and mathematical modelling. Been applying to jobs for a while now, and no luck unfortunately. Wondering if I should just give up and go back to teaching, especially as I…

Why don't you search for jobs in the country you are living? It would be easier to find a job there than overseas.

I am living in Ireland, currently doing said masters. Should've been more explicit in that.

Re: What would a recession mean for developers?

#130

Post by Doxin »

egfx wrote: post #103
iLoveOncall wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that it won't tell you if a candidate is good, it will often show very quickly that a candidate is absolutely terrible. My warm-up questions are usually something like "reverse a singly-linked-list" or "check if a string is a palindrome", and you would be surprised at how many people have just no clue on how to do it, even with a lot of help (and I work in a FAANG so we should be getting decent candidat…

> My warm-up questions are usually something like "reverse a singly-linked-list" or "check if a string is a palindrome", and you would be surprised at how many people have just no clue on how to do it, I don’t know how to do it. I would need dictionary.com to find out what a palindrome means and stackoverflow for the rest, but I’ve used and evaluated five different JavaScript frameworks in building full scale web app…

An interview is not a quiz. You're allowed to ask clarifying questions. I'm sure most interviewers won't discount you for being unfamiliar with a fairly obscure word.

Needing stackoverflow to check for palindrome-ness would probably be a bigger problem though. Of course during your day-to-day you'll be allowed to google all sorts of things, but checking if something is a palindrome is so basic that all google could possibly provide you is the exact answer to the question.

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