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Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

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Re: Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

#21

Post by hef19898 »

sreevisakh wrote: post #13
StillBored wrote: post #7

Ok, given its flying just the core, and not the fan, why doesn't it fit in the cargo hold? I mean they wouldn't have to worry about the extra drag/etc in the hold. It also seems odd that they would do this on a plane carrying commercial passengers since it seems more of an "experimental" modification even if the manufacture has approved it.

It isn't experimental or unique even if it's rare. It has been done before. I'm not sure why this instance alone got such attention. Regarding the cargo hold problem, the aircraft wasn't carrying just the engine core. The 'pod' is most likely the engine nacelle itself. I wonder if the entire thing would fit through the cargo door (mere speculation). While it's true that the 747 was originally meant as a cargo carrier…

Normaly the nose loading is done oy when absolutely necessary. It's a pain, takes ages and is complicated. When possible stuff is squeezed through the fuselage cargo doors. Back the day we did it with a ten foot sea container, never thought it would fit...

Re: Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

#22

Post by CTDOCodebases »

cm2187 wrote: post #17
bragr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar reaction when I first read about it. kind of crazy how no one was ever really held responsible and then 9-11 just kind of pushed it out of most of the public's collective memory, or at least that's how it seems to me.

There has been a lot of terrorist activity continuously in europe since the 60s. In the 60s/70s it was mostly far left terrorism (red brigade, baader-meinhof gang, etc) and some independence movements (FLN or the opposite like OAS). In the 70s/80s independence movements (palestinians, IRA, ETA, etc), and state sponsored terrorism (Iran, Libya). In the 90s it became islamists. The far right committed continuously rare…

I think the response is a bit different because previously the attacks relied on the attacker not staying at the scene of the attack plus the attacker wanted to survive the attack.

With Islamic terrorism came more sophisticated attacks that required more logistical planning. These were only possible because the people carrying out the attacks were simultaneously committing suicide in the process.

Previous attacks did affect procedures it’s just that they weren’t as noticeable and the type of surveillance we have now was not possible at the time due to the technology being used. For instance bags were unloaded if the passenger didn’t board[0] or flight observation decks were enclosed to stop RPG’s being fired at airplanes[1].

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103?wprov=sfti1

[1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Orly_Airport_attacks

Re: Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

#23

Post by bragr »

dotancohen wrote: post #16
bragr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a design feature dating back to when there were no easy ways to transport the engines. It's a perfectly cromulent way to transport a 747 engine, just uncommon these days because there are many large air freighters now (like the 747 itself). The idea was that in the early days of the 747, airlines could be self sufficient in transporting engines and their new expensive planes wouldn't get stranded.

It should be noted in context that original the 747 could, like the 737 before it, service airfields too small to have service centers. Therefore, it was important that another 747 could ferry in all parts needed to service a potentially damaged 747 at these locations, including an entire engine. Most aircraft with such capability are identified by the inclusion of built-in stairs for passenger ingress/egress, which…

The 737-200 had an optional gravel kit for unpaved runways! A few -200s still in use because of that feature

Re: Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

#24

Post by sreevisakh »

hef19898 wrote: post #21
sreevisakh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't experimental or unique even if it's rare. It has been done before. I'm not sure why this instance alone got such attention. Regarding the cargo hold problem, the aircraft wasn't carrying just the engine core. The 'pod' is most likely the engine nacelle itself. I wonder if the entire thing would fit through the cargo door (mere speculation). While it's true that the 747 was originally meant as a cargo carrier…

Normaly the nose loading is done oy when absolutely necessary. It's a pain, takes ages and is complicated. When possible stuff is squeezed through the fuselage cargo doors. Back the day we did it with a ten foot sea container, never thought it would fit...

I agree about the nose loading part. Meanwhile, how does an engine with its nacelle compare to a marine container in terms of dimensions? Would it be easier or harder to load through the fuselage doors? I also assume that they will need a fixture or container for the engine if it was to be loaded into the cargo hold.

Re: Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

#25

Post by can16358p »

Animats wrote: post #2

No big deal. External payloads seem strange, but 747s have carried much larger ones, such as the Space Shuttle. Worse things have been carried under wings.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_Air_Force_n...

> W80-1 variable yield nuclear warhead, were mistakenly loaded onto a...

Imagine mistakenly loading a nuclear warhead on the wrong plane.

Re: Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

#26

Post by pbhjpbhj »

cm2187 wrote: post #17
bragr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar reaction when I first read about it. kind of crazy how no one was ever really held responsible and then 9-11 just kind of pushed it out of most of the public's collective memory, or at least that's how it seems to me.

There has been a lot of terrorist activity continuously in europe since the 60s. In the 60s/70s it was mostly far left terrorism (red brigade, baader-meinhof gang, etc) and some independence movements (FLN or the opposite like OAS). In the 70s/80s independence movements (palestinians, IRA, ETA, etc), and state sponsored terrorism (Iran, Libya). In the 90s it became islamists. The far right committed continuously rare…

I'd posit that's because a growing Islamic movement allows power to rapidly shift outside the established political structure. Just like with papistry in Europe in the past, if you're using people's faith to manipulate them then someone coming in and 'stealing' those people's adherence means your power is depleted.

Islam was arguably designed by Mohammed to cede power from the establishment of his time. Joseph Smith's (Mormonism) very obvious deceptions lead to a new global power structure; Ron Hubbard's (Scientology) even more obvious deceptions are used to target individuals in powerful positions and gain leverage over them.

Those who truly believe will always have a negative reaction to religious ideas that challenge their truth; those who use religion to bolster power will be even more against new religious ideas.

Re: Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

#27

Post by raverbashing »

Animats wrote: post #2

No big deal. External payloads seem strange, but 747s have carried much larger ones, such as the Space Shuttle. Worse things have been carried under wings.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_Air_Force_n...

Yes but the Shuttle Transporter has several modifications and reinforcements, so it's not really a "stock" 747

Flying it is also more complicated

Re: Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

#28

Post by disillusioned »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #10
sreevisakh wrote: post #6

The ill-fated Boeing 747 flight AI182 (Kanishka) was carrying an extra engine just like this, when it was destroyed over Atlantic ocean by a terrorist bomb attack in June 1985. The presence of the extra engine was investigated as a possible cause of the disaster before conclusive evidence of a bomb explosion was found. (That and another explosion on the ground at Narita, Japan in a container destined for another Air…

Wow, "Canadian Sikh terrorists" was not something I was expecting to read about today.

The whole thing is fascinating. I only just read about it because of the long slog that was Neal Stephenson's Termination Shock, which spends basically half the book talking about the China/India Line of Actual Control, and dips into Sikhism a bit.

I had no idea that Indira Ghandi was assassinated by her two Sikh bodyguards, after she insisted they be reinstated to her protective detail, Intelligence Bureau having removed them after Operation Bluestar. The same operation is what lead to the Air India 182 plane bombing. Quite the blowback, only to then be met with the killing of over 8,000 Sikhs in the 1984 anti-Sikh riots.

Re: Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)

#30

Post by gattilorenz »

cm2187 wrote: post #17
bragr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar reaction when I first read about it. kind of crazy how no one was ever really held responsible and then 9-11 just kind of pushed it out of most of the public's collective memory, or at least that's how it seems to me.

There has been a lot of terrorist activity continuously in europe since the 60s. In the 60s/70s it was mostly far left terrorism (red brigade, baader-meinhof gang, etc) and some independence movements (FLN or the opposite like OAS). In the 70s/80s independence movements (palestinians, IRA, ETA, etc), and state sponsored terrorism (Iran, Libya). In the 90s it became islamists. The far right committed continuously rare…

> But the reaction it created is kind of curious (security in airports, army in the street, state surveillance)

Not sure about the other examples, but the "Red Brigades" (Brigate Rosse) and other terrorist acts in Italy lead to special laws that extended considerably the powers of police (you can be searched without a warrant if there's the suspicion you have a weapon, you would potentially be arrested for wearing a helmet or other face cover without legitimate need, e.g. in a demonstration) and the use of force, the creation of new "swat-like" police forces. And of course, there was considerably more police on the street in those years...

Fun fact, all I know about Germany is that they proposed (and too slowly deployed) a new font for car plates after the Baader-Meinhof gang successfully altered with black tape a plate.

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