Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time • Hacker News Board

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#11

Post by danilocampos » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:28 PM UTC

I need to write a post to discuss this at greater depth, but...

I am fucking astonished at how inept most recruiters are. I mean, just awful and useless at their "jobs."

If we concede the point that, especially in the Valley, technical talent is in high demand, it stands to reason that any overture to such talent needs to be persuasive, informative and intriguing. It should explain the role in reasonable detail, while making a sane case for how cool the company and opportunity will be.

Ideally, it should demonstrate that the recruiter has a basic understanding of a given prospect's skills and career trajectory. Super bonus points if it doesn't seem like a form letter.

Instead, what I get is stuff like

"Hey, I'm looking for developers for a role I'm filling. You need to be this, this, and this. Oh, and this is a plus. Mmkay, lemme know!"

Well. Congratulations?

Hey, I have a job. And it doesn't involve proving to a random recruiter that I'm skilled at it. And from such pitches, how would I know that I'd even care? I know nothing about the company and only have the vaguest notion of what I'd be wanted for.

Recruiters are a waste of time, though mostly their own. A founder out being social has a much better chance, I think, at successfully recruiting limited talent. Not that they have time, I know.

And don't get me started on the pitch that opened with "I'm looking for some iOS studs!" I had a friend at the company they were pitching. They weren't impressed when they heard about this one, especially since they had no formal relationship with the bozo.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#12

Post by w33ble » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:29 PM UTC

I had expected this to be related to using recruiters to find jobs. I've found that to be primarily a complete waste of time as well, but I suspect the reasons are the same. To most recruiters, it's just a numbers game, as the article points out; they simply "throw engineers at companies in the hopes that one or two will stick and they’ll get their commission". In my experience, it's quite rare to find a recruiter that will spend even a little bit of time actually matching candidates to the position in a meaningful way. It's also possible that, like the author, I've only ever dealt with really bad recruiters before.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#13

Post by lanstein » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:32 PM UTC

cue Peroni...

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#14

Post by dpritchett » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:35 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #11

I need to write a post to discuss this at greater depth, but... I am fucking astonished at how inept most recruiters are. I mean, just awful and useless at their "jobs." If we concede the point that, especially in the Valley, technical talent is in high demand, it stands to reason that any overture to such talent needs to be persuasive, informative and intriguing. It should explain the role in reasonable detail, whil…

Maybe you're not looking, but don't you have some iOS dev friends who are less comfortable in their current positions?

I take unsolicited recruitment approaches with a grain of salt, but I make an honest effort to go through my mental Rolodex to see if there's anyone I know who might benefit from making the connection. When I respond to a cold call it's either politely or not at all.

Just tracking the volume and content of these approaches is valuable information that I can use to better manage my own career in the years ahead, not to mention the goodwill I can engender by making the occasional introduction.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#15

Post by brador » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:38 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #11

I need to write a post to discuss this at greater depth, but... I am fucking astonished at how inept most recruiters are. I mean, just awful and useless at their "jobs." If we concede the point that, especially in the Valley, technical talent is in high demand, it stands to reason that any overture to such talent needs to be persuasive, informative and intriguing. It should explain the role in reasonable detail, whil…

If they had the skill set they'd be using it. Think "Those who can't, teach". Similar concept with recruiters.

They're salespeople, not talent.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#16

Post by z5h » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:38 PM UTC

I had an idea of making recruiters put their money where their mouths are. Want to represent me? That'll cost you $2000/year. If you find me a great job in the next few years you you get many times your money back.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#17

Post by Nate75Sanders » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:38 PM UTC

BiWinning wrote: post #7

So where do you search for engineers if you're a startup?

Go to various tech meetups/meetings that seem relevant and then try to identify smart people by what they say in meetings. Then approach them.

Maybe sponsor a relevant meeting by buying the pizza/beer for it. This buys you the opportunity to give a company introduction and let people know you're hiring. Very cheap advertising.

meetup.com is probably the generic place to look for these types of meetings, but every city probably has its own, better site. In Seattle, among others, we have http://www.seattletechcalendar.com/ and http://www.seattle20.com/ among probably others.

Sitting in your office waiting for resumes/cover letters is the absolute worst way to try to get people. It also leaves you with only an interview to get to know the potential hire, while at the meeting you may find out all sorts of desirable or undesirable characteristics about them. Additionally you may get input from that person's peers.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#18

Post by tomcreighton » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:41 PM UTC

fooboy wrote: post #9

This cuts both ways: looking for work takes a substantial, non-zero amount of time, and it's extremely frustrating when startups decide to speak with you even though they know hiring you is "a long shot." Searching for work at a startup has been a protracted, fruitless process. They have no problem conversing with you and checking out your background over coffee, lunch, whatever. After a few conversations and a techn…

My opinion: if startups aren't serious about hiring you, they shouldn't go through the dance. Why are they wasting everybody's time?

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#19

Post by motters » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:45 PM UTC

I've had very mixed experiences with recruiters. At best they ask reasonable questions and provide informative information about companies. At worst they're rude, condescending, unprofessional and openly confess that "I know nothing about software". I think that the probability distribution is skewed more towards the latter than the former.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#20

Post by prophetjohn » Tue, Oct 25, 2011, 4:48 PM UTC

w33ble wrote: post #12

I had expected this to be related to using recruiters to find jobs. I've found that to be primarily a complete waste of time as well, but I suspect the reasons are the same. To most recruiters, it's just a numbers game, as the article points out; they simply "throw engineers at companies in the hopes that one or two will stick and they’ll get their commission". In my experience, it's quite rare to find a recruiter th…

I'll often get calls from recruiters telling me they've found a position for which I'm a perfect match. And then they explain it's a senior developer position requiring 5 years of experience, when it's very clearly stated on my resume that I'm a college student looking for an internship.

They just keyword search resumes.