To all "professors" (so-called) - you are not there to TEST people, you are there to EDUCATE them. Cheating in this context becomes impossible.
My students cheated... a lot
341–350 of 1001 posts
Re: My students cheated... a lot
#342Good read, but man those gifs are distracting.
Re: My students cheated... a lot
#343[deleted]
Re: My students cheated... a lot
#344> There were 100+ students in the class > I was suffering technical difficulties while giving online lectures. > It was extremely demoralizing to teach to a class that was blatantly cheating the entire time. How demoralizing do you think it is to be paying a fair bit of money (or more likely taking on a fair bit of debt) to be just 1 of 100+ students in a poorly functioning online class? To be clear, I'm not blaming…
My only critique of the teacher here is not having a enough empathy for these students and spending far more energy trying to catch cheaters than address the fact that these students have gotten a raw deal.
I agree, except that this teacher did have tons of empathy for the students. That's pretty clear from the lengths they went to individualize the repercussions, offer second chances, and so on.
I suspect this teacher has perhaps a bit of fun catching cheaters? I'm not sure. They've written code to detect plagiarism in the past. They use a quiz/exam structure that's ripe for cheating: multiple chances for quiz retakes, long windows for exams, and question re-use between quizzes and exams. They wrote code to archive the chat log daily, identify students, and determine instances of cheating. They gave second chances, creating a new syllabus, after which cheating still occurred. Then they wrote this article.
So I agree - the teacher spent a disproportionate amount of time on the cheaters, which is unfair to the honest students.
Why not use cheat-resistant course material? They were able to restructure the second midterm exam this way - one question at a time, no backtracking, randomized order, and no question re-use. I suppose this is also time sink to combat cheating, but it seems more efficient than spending additional time filing reports and writing chat analysis code and so on.
Re: My students cheated... a lot
#345I've never understood people's attitudes towards cheating, which is perhaps why its so prevalent. People cheat at sports all the time and people just sort of accept it. When people cheat in school, we just kind of go "well, yeah, kids do that, I guess we'll give you a few warnings first." If someone is caught cheating how do I know they didn't cheat in previous classes, but got away with it? Do you really want to go…
My attitude towards cheating is that college students have underdeveloped prefontal cortexes, may have come from high schools where the teachers didn't care or weren't able to catch cheaters, may have come from an environment with rampant cheating, etc.
If a student believes that they can get away with cheating, and isn't going to get a good grade otherwise, it's completely logical to cheat, from the perspective of self-interest.
If a teacher believes that they can put a cheater on the right course, and convince them to stop cheating, it's completely logical to take the opportunity to do that.
Meanwhile, the academic integrity policies for a college are designed to catch cheaters that would otherwise slip through the cracks, while still giving people a chance to change their ways. If you expel people for cheating once, you put the burden on each single professor--you're making them the judge, jury, and executioner, so to speak. That makes their job more difficult, because they have to weigh much more serious consequences for cheaters in their class. So you give individual professors discretion, but collect their findings for review by an academic integrity board.
This seems like an effective system.
Re: My students cheated... a lot
#346I think a lot of people here are missing the root cause of why students cheat. College for the longest time has not had anything to do with learning for the VAST majority of students. You go to college because you have to have a degree to get a job. And you have to have a good GPA on that degree to get a job. College is not about actually learning anything - it's a purely monetary investment, where you go into debt t…
Seems a bit cynical of a take. Cheating prevents you from learning, otherwise you wouldn't need to. Also, college is very limited in how much it can prepare you for a real job. It only offers a subset of knowledge that is needed to be good at any given job. Cheating is basically showing up to class and avoiding the whole point of being there. Why would you show up to a training, to then ignore the training part. I th…
> Why would you show up to a training, to then ignore the training part.
You said it yourself.
> college is very limited in how much it can prepare you for a real job.
The goal isn't to be well prepared for a job. The goal is to get the job. For most students, including myself while I was there, university is a massive signalling exercise. I just cared about the magic combo that would lead to a good paying job.
Re: My students cheated... a lot
#347Cheating is the natural result of an exclusive funnel for entry into the middle class. This has been going on for decades in Asia (which is why Chinese students cheat so much), and now America is finally here as well. Academics like to wax poetic about how students are "only cheating themselves" and "losing out on the educational opportunities", but the reality is much more mercenary and down-to-earth: Either you pas…
> Either you pass this hurdle by hook or by crook, or you spend the rest of your life flipping burgers. It's not a hard choice. Yes, but the assumption is you're passing with the knowledge in your head. Having the career knowledge is what in theory allows you to get the job, and then not flip burgers. I'm not sure how students end up thinking it's literally the number of your grade that makes the difference. Maybe it…
> I'm not sure how students end up thinking it's literally the number of your grade that makes the difference.
Because it literally is true. Students aren't stupid; they know that higher education is largely a sham, and that the number they get and the prestige of the institution is what makes the difference (beyond simply having the paper - which is the most important part of course) in their entry level to the middle class or upper-middle-class workplace. The actual content of their education is largely irrelevant for most places that require it. Only the number matters.
And cheating isn't the only symptom of this problem; grade inflation is another. Both students and faculty are responding rationally to the unspoken truth. To NOT cheat is to increase the risk of living a life of poverty. To NOT inflate grades is to condemn more of your students to that life. Honor codes only mean something in places where everyone is of similar privilege.
As the metric becomes less indicative of reality, the smart people find more creative ways to game it.
Re: My students cheated... a lot
#348I think a lot of people here are missing the root cause of why students cheat. College for the longest time has not had anything to do with learning for the VAST majority of students. You go to college because you have to have a degree to get a job. And you have to have a good GPA on that degree to get a job. College is not about actually learning anything - it's a purely monetary investment, where you go into debt t…
We're going to college at the worst time in our lives. When I was in college I did exactly what you described. I didn't really cheat much (I remember just one time), but all I cared about was grades and getting a job. I couldn't have cared less about learning or retaining anything. And I didn't learn much. This strategy worked out well for me, but it was a huge waste of time. I'm in my 30s now and I would absolutely…
Us students would generally love to learn too. The problem I often encountered was engineering professors did research first and foremost with teaching a second priority. It often felt like if the teacher isn’t putting in the work why should we? Conversely, my business teachers cared far more for us students and I believe people put far more effort in.
Re: My students cheated... a lot
#349I think a lot of people here are missing the root cause of why students cheat. College for the longest time has not had anything to do with learning for the VAST majority of students. You go to college because you have to have a degree to get a job. And you have to have a good GPA on that degree to get a job. College is not about actually learning anything - it's a purely monetary investment, where you go into debt t…
> Given all of this, why wouldn't you cheat? In my state college they had zero tolerance policy. You caught cheating, you're out.
Do they still? I had numerous friends caught cheating in the most blatant of ways (i.e. they forget to change the name of the assignment of the student they copied). Less than half even got a zero on the assignment. Plenty got a perfect grade and then were told to not do it again.
Re: My students cheated... a lot
#350Quite a read, indeed. As a student witnessing the amount of cheating going on, I was always surprised about the noise raised by teachers on it: I always felt that my score was my own, and didn't care about comparing against others. Perhaps that's why I didn't care? Another thing is that college is voluntary, and everyone takes the courses for some perceived gain. If it's just a diploma with high GPA, I let them be. T…
> As a student witnessing the amount of cheating going on, I was always surprised about the noise raised by teachers on it: I always felt that my score was my own, and didn't care about comparing against others.
Years ago a few students in my class were complaining about cheaters. They were frustrated, and one even accused me of missing "obvious" cheaters. It was embarrassing for me, and brought down morale in the class. I have policed exams more aggressively ever since.
In another class, I caught a cheater during an exam (Calculus 2 or 3), and one of his classmates e-mailed thanking me, noting the student cheated his way through the prerequisite class the prior semester.
This stuff really matters.