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My students cheated... a lot

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Re: My students cheated... a lot

#261
Software engineering in general does not test well. It is, like many trades, best learned by modeling. This isn’t really conducive to large classrooms/numbers of students. In the end copying is perhaps exactly the best way to learn good programming practices.

What do we do to train our more junior coworkers? Tell them to figure it out? Sink or swim? No, we write mountains of documentation, examples, pair program, etc. We actually value consistency and predictability between engineers. We like doing all these things universities tend not to do.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#262
post #40

I'm not really a fan of how the author handled the situation, but it is clear they care about their students and want them to learn. But when the second semester begins and the author silently joins the new groupchat... I feel like that is a lack of integrity.

He was invited.

And stayed with the intentions of seeing whether the students would cheat again, rather than addressing the root of the problem.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#263

What would you tell your child to do if he/she were in this class, and were aware of the massive cheating happening in the chat? Should the student report the cheating to the professor? Assuming there was a curve in the class, how do you deal with the "but everyone else is doing it" argument with regard to benefiting from the cheating (even passively, by seeing the questions/answers posted)? I have wondered about sim…

I would tell my children not to leave a digital record of cheating and that they should choose a more useful major than psychology. Lots (probably most) of people are in college for the credentials. Most of the rest are there because they feel they are supposed to be there. They do the work required for the credentials. Most of what is taught in college has little value or applicability and is quickly forgotten. Chea…

> For most university courses, even at elite colleges, you could just show up and attend the course without enrolling.

This has never been true at any college I have attended. You absolutely got booted if you were not on the class roster after the enrollment period was done.

At California community colleges, it seemed it's also a matter of insurance liability. They were remarkably aggressive about enforcement.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#264
As someone who “cheated” - it was a requirement to pass classes. “Professors” (researchers and post-docs who hated lecturing) were in a constant arms race against the students. We were assigned problems routinely that we would ask the professor to solve in class - they could not do it. They would fail it themselves. This happened in multiple subjects.

Many classes also had students not showing up if it was clear that they were not going to need to be in class to know the subject material. If you could read it from the book and the professor was straight forward with their testing - students wouldn’t show. It was a waste of time to go to the lectures because often these professors were absolutely terrible. You were just better off reading the book because you’d be less confused by that.

Tbh - college is a giant scam in the way many people think of it as a way of “learning”. For myself and many of my peers - it was purely a transactional procedure. We needed the credentials and we needed good grades in those credentials. Everything else was secondary.

Optimizing for “learning” is such a joke in our capitalistic winner takes all economy. Give me a break. I’m not a Rothschild ffs.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#266
post #40

I'm not really a fan of how the author handled the situation, but it is clear they care about their students and want them to learn. But when the second semester begins and the author silently joins the new groupchat... I feel like that is a lack of integrity.

Can you explain further what you mean by "integrity"?

IMO as a teacher the correct action would be to try and resolve the issue of cheating at its core. I feel that staying in the new gc and waiting to see if students cheat again is a lack of integrity - he is waiting to see if students cheat rather than teach and grow them.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#267
post #224
post #170

I taught two courses to undergrad CS students at Stanford. I think about half of students cheated on problem sets and tests. The answers were all way too uniform and done without correction. In the first course, there was a student who definitely didn’t cheat and was objectively horrible at all tasks assigned, consuming a frustratingly large portion of my grading time. This student ended up with a massively impressiv…

From my understanding of cryptocurrency and the people in it, I don't have the premise that founding a billion dollar (or 10 billion dollar) cryptocurrency is laudable. It strikes me that your comment would read by crypto fanbase as a success story, and yet as crypto detractors like myself as even further reason to regard them as terrible... you may have just invented the "completely unintentional if-by-whiskey argum…

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Re: My students cheated... a lot

#268
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding of cryptocurrency and the people in it, I don't have the premise that founding a billion dollar (or 10 billion dollar) cryptocurrency is laudable. It strikes me that your comment would read by crypto fanbase as a success story, and yet as crypto detractors like myself as even further reason to regard them as terrible... you may have just invented the "completely unintentional if-by-whiskey argum…

If it were a 216B cryptocurrency then it would indeed be laudable. It’s Ethereum and it is innovating in every aspect.

Cryptocurrencies were innovating in one particular aspect, solving the double spending problem for truly anonymous transactions. Beyond that it's not as innovative as people think. Even Bitcoin supports smart contracts, and the only real noteworthy achievement in the real world Ethereum has achieved is becoming a massive platform for gamblers in the form of speculation, which makes up almost the entirety of Ethereum's activity. No name engineers at companies like Google deal with far more complex and far more practical problems as part of their job. I say this as someone who has written their own block chain from scratch (not a fork) and understands how incredibly niche and overblown cryptocurrencies are.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#270

> There were 100+ students in the class > I was suffering technical difficulties while giving online lectures. > It was extremely demoralizing to teach to a class that was blatantly cheating the entire time. How demoralizing do you think it is to be paying a fair bit of money (or more likely taking on a fair bit of debt) to be just 1 of 100+ students in a poorly functioning online class? To be clear, I'm not blaming…

when businesses do it, it's called delegation, efficiency, or collaboration, but when students do it, it's called cheating. it's unfair in that sense.

Hello! What do you think you're doing? Only me and Garth get to talk to the camera.
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