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My students cheated... a lot

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Re: My students cheated... a lot

#161

Post by derangedHorse »

jmull wrote: post #64

I honestly don’t get widespread cheating like this… You’re paying so much money for these courses — probably a ridiculous amount, so much you may never recoup — … so at least get everything out of it you can. Otherwise, why sign up in the first place? Let me tell you: essentially no one cares what grade you got in your courses. (Sure, there are cases, but over time they quickly attenuate from “sometimes” to “never” a…

Many don't pay money for the courses themselves, they're paying for a degree. Why do people want a degree? To pursue high paying careers because it's difficult for many (at least here in America) to find any decent paying job (that allows for the "American Dream") without one. Now it would be nice if every student was passionate about all the subjects required for their degree of choice and/or if every professor had both passion and clarity in their lecturing but that's not the world we live in.

Students aren't always passionate about the required subjects for their degree , potentially because these subjects won't always have a direct correlation in meeting job requirements or improving job performance, and even the students who are passionate may never get the education they desire (picture a lousy lecturer on tenure who's forced to give lectures as part of the job).

Now put yourself in the shoes of a student who comes from a long history of generational poverty who was able to scrape by enough money to save up for a degree so that they can get a 6 figure job at Morgan Stanley (or the like) as a business analyst. The job will probably only require them to put some numbers into spreadsheets and make graphs. The qualifications to do that will require them to get a degree made more expensive through gen-ed requirements and a whole lot of classes they don't need.

Now in that situation would you forfeit your goal for the threat of passing a difficult, irrelevant science class requirement when a better alternative exists that will also free up time to spend more on the classes that will actually be relevant to the job? Even if you wouldn't, it shouldn't be hard to imagine why someone would.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#162

Post by WalterBright »

makeitdouble wrote: post #107
jmull wrote: post #64

I honestly don’t get widespread cheating like this… You’re paying so much money for these courses — probably a ridiculous amount, so much you may never recoup — … so at least get everything out of it you can. Otherwise, why sign up in the first place? Let me tell you: essentially no one cares what grade you got in your courses. (Sure, there are cases, but over time they quickly attenuate from “sometimes” to “never” a…

> You’re paying so much money for these courses I think that’s the central point. - It’s not _their_ money, it’s their parents’ either “hard earned” money, but they’re too inexperienced to understand its meaning, or “not so hard earned” money and they’re just going through it like their parents do. - the goal is also money on the other end of the pipe. The statistics that get repeated is how much more you earn with a…

I.e. any car can perform like a Ferrari just by painting it red and putting on some badges.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#163

Post by eek2121 »

rbongers wrote: post #98
jmull wrote: post #64

I honestly don’t get widespread cheating like this… You’re paying so much money for these courses — probably a ridiculous amount, so much you may never recoup — … so at least get everything out of it you can. Otherwise, why sign up in the first place? Let me tell you: essentially no one cares what grade you got in your courses. (Sure, there are cases, but over time they quickly attenuate from “sometimes” to “never” a…

The reason I think a lot of people cheat is because they just don't appreciate the value of a good education, they don't even know what they really want to do with their lives, they don't know the value of money, and are just going because their parents just want them to. I went through an unconventional learning path - I didn't think I was ready for post-secondary straight out of highschool, so I worked first. After…

My dude, I make a quarter million a year. I found out how useless college was after I accrued $2,944 in student loans (I attended college after 2001). The value to me was, and continues to be zero. College is not for everyone, and this applies even in countries where higher education is free.

The ability to use critical thinking does not come from a college education.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#164

Post by faitswulff »

rossdavidh wrote: post #118

So I think the teacher missed the main point of his own essay: "The argument was that chat groups have become indispensable tools for students taking courses online during the pandemic. The essay detailed all of the useful info passed around in chats. I totally agreed with this point....Their strategy was to leave the chat before every quiz and midterm so that they couldn’t be there for the cheating. Then they rejoin…

He did find a better system, I recommend reading the article in depth.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#165

Post by MBCook »

frellus wrote: post #49

"In at least 150 words, demonstrate your understanding of what it means to behave according to a high standard of personal and academic integrity" -- should have made that 2000 words, minimum. Great write-up, more than fair teacher who wants only what's best for their students.

Honestly if they couldn’t do 150 without plagiarizing it, what’s the chance they could do 2000?

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#166

Post by irrational »

As someone who also teaches programming to college students, this is one of the most glorious things I’ve ever read.

Though, anyone know what “hes so Canadian” means? I assume it means he is Canadian, hence why he seems to be taking this so calmly and not flipping out, but I’m not sure.

Edit: I’m now reading the comments. The amount of people trying to justify lying and cheating is truly disheartening.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#167

Post by geoduck14 »

jmull wrote: post #64

I honestly don’t get widespread cheating like this… You’re paying so much money for these courses — probably a ridiculous amount, so much you may never recoup — … so at least get everything out of it you can. Otherwise, why sign up in the first place? Let me tell you: essentially no one cares what grade you got in your courses. (Sure, there are cases, but over time they quickly attenuate from “sometimes” to “never” a…

I feel a strong need to debunk some falsehoods here.

First, to be clear. DO NOT CHEAT.

Ok. Grades DO matter. When I graduated, there were several companies that wouldn't interview me because I didn't have the grades. I had a 3.2 ish. That meant I had to get a job slightly outside of my degree - which impacted my entire career (12 years amd counting).

Also, you can't lie about your grades - they will ask for your transcripts. The job I got out of college asked for mine after 6 months

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#168

Post by ameister14 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #39
Scramblejams wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always felt that my score was my own, and didn't care about comparing against others. Tough to do when you’re sharing a curve with a bunch of cheaters, and the grades matter for your future. I know in the program I attended I was up against a fair few who were taking cognition enhancing drugs, others who had exam copies from prior years to help them prep, and a lot of people who copied each others’ homework. It was…

> cognition enhancing drugs, others who had exam copies from prior years to help them prep, and a lot of people who copied each others’ homework I feel drugs and copying are quite different - the guy on drugs did put in the work and the effort, after all.

I don't. Steroids are banned from competitive sports for a reason.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#169

Post by colinmhayes »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #101

> There were 100+ students in the class > I was suffering technical difficulties while giving online lectures. > It was extremely demoralizing to teach to a class that was blatantly cheating the entire time. How demoralizing do you think it is to be paying a fair bit of money (or more likely taking on a fair bit of debt) to be just 1 of 100+ students in a poorly functioning online class? To be clear, I'm not blaming…

I went to a top ten ranked cs school for what it's worth. I graduated pre-covid. Every single cs class has minimum 100 students. The department recorded classes so that they could increase attendance without getting bigger rooms. By the time I was an upperclassmen less than half the students showed up to lectures. Having 25/200 students present was common. It really was demoralizing to realize that the department didn't see a problem with many if not most students graduating without having actually spoken to a professor once, since you had to show up a couple hours early for office hours if you wanted to be seen. It's clear that the undergrads were nothing more than moneybags to my institution, so naturally students saw their education as the transaction it was. Most students were there because they figured graduating from a top school is what is required to get a FAANG job as a 21 year old.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#170

Post by jl2718 »

I taught two courses to undergrad CS students at Stanford. I think about half of students cheated on problem sets and tests. The answers were all way too uniform and done without correction.

In the first course, there was a student who definitely didn’t cheat and was objectively horrible at all tasks assigned, consuming a frustratingly large portion of my grading time. This student ended up with a massively impressive resume including all the best places, and became the founder of a billion dollar cryptocurrency.

In the second course, the worst student also clearly didn’t cheat, and sometimes I gave extra points for answers that were wrong but the only ones in the class that were invented rather than regurgitated. That student founded one of the most influential companies in modern computer science, and also a 10 billion-dollar cryptocurrency.

I’m not sure what the lesson is. I had honest and very good students that didn’t do much of note, but there were only two honest but awful students, and both had superlative success. Just for reference, I was honest and pushed hard to land somewhere in the low middle, and I’ve had my share of ups and downs, but definitely no competition for the lanterne rouges.

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