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iPod godfather and ex-iPhone team launch previously stealth startup

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Re: iPod godfather and ex-iPhone team launch previously stealth startup

#61

Post by achompas »

You don't want to be overly cynical of any ideas, but this is a non-starter for consumers. Thermostats are fine as-is: they could use a new UX, but do you really want to pay $249 (plus a $120 install fee) for that touch-up?

Here's why this thing will sell like gangbusters, though: it's aesthetically appealing. Homebuilders put aesthetically-appealing items in their new homes.

When you're purchasing a house for six figures, are you really nitpicking a $375 item? No--you're too worried about the flooring or the insulation or the plumbing or ceiling support or any other number of things. You'll glance at the thermostat, smile, then remember that you need to pull out some code-violating wiring. Then you're off again.

I predict a hit, but not in the B2C way many people are thinking about. People will implicitly pay for this thermostat in new homes, but they won't explicitly go out of their way to upgrade old thermostats.

Re: iPod godfather and ex-iPhone team launch previously stealth startup

#62

Post by oldstrangers »

absconditus wrote: post #21
oldstrangers wrote: post #7

From a business standpoint, it seems like Nest Labs will be spending a lot of their time explaining the reason their product is relevant to the consumer. The market is there, but like Tony said in the video, its at a contractor level. Rarely does a consumer decide they need to purchase a thermostat on their own. So if they're honestly planning to sell to consumers directly, they'll have to basically create a marketpl…

Have you never seen the numerous thermostats for sale at a home improvement store?

Nope, because I've never even thought about a thermostat outside of my limited interaction with it. Which is my point.

Re: iPod godfather and ex-iPhone team launch previously stealth startup

#64

Post by atourgates »

achompas wrote: post #61

You don't want to be overly cynical of any ideas, but this is a non-starter for consumers. Thermostats are fine as-is: they could use a new UX, but do you really want to pay $249 (plus a $120 install fee) for that touch-up? Here's why this thing will sell like gangbusters, though: it's aesthetically appealing. Homebuilders put aesthetically-appealing items in their new homes. When you're purchasing a house for six fi…

Like others have mentioned, you've got to focus on the energy savings to justify the cost.

For some reason Nest has hidden this away in their whitepaper. But - if you take the time to read that - you find, nested (ha ha - get it) towards the end, the conclusions of their simulations.

As a quick aside, let me just say, that for a company essentially selling excellent product design - they did a shit job at presenting quantifiable, easy to understand energy savings data.

Anyway, they devided their simulated case studies into two main groups, people who are gone from the house 8-hours a day 5-days a week (e.g. - your average working professional), and people who aren't (e.g. people with kids at home, or who work from home).

They found that the people gone from the house 9-5 will save an average of $227/yr, and people who need to keep their homes comfortable during the day will save an average of $116/yr.

These savings of course go up if you take a long vacation (they estimate 4 weeks of vacation will add an additional $58-$68 of savings), or if you follow the suggestions of the thermostat to lower or raise your comfort-temp by 1° (an additional $54-$60).

At my work, we do quite a bit of marketing for energy-efficiency companies. The most effective thing they can do is to go into a business or home and say, "We're going to install this energy-saving equipment. We'll pay for the install, and you can pay us back out of the energy savings. After the installation is paid off (usually 1-3 years with the companies we do work for) the savings go straight into your pocket."

Now - this might not be possible with this specific device, but they could at least make the argument that the device will pay for itself in ~3 years. I may or may not want to spend $375 for a fancy thermostat, but that purchase barrier would be much easier to overcome if I could tell myself that it'd pay for itself in a few years.

I'm not sure why this isn't front and center on Nest's site. There might be some liability issues since they've only run simulations, and don't have actual user data. But it seems like a miss on their part.

Re: iPod godfather and ex-iPhone team launch previously stealth startup

#65

Post by SigmundA »

noonespecial wrote: post #13

I'm wondering about the installation part. It doesn't seem to me that the average user is just doing to go grab one and get it in himself. I made my own computerized replacement for the thermostat in my house(1) and discovered that there were about 5 different possible wiring patterns depending on if you've got heat pumps, multi-stage, e-heat, gas, etc. After much research I figured out how they are wired, how my hou…

I have a OmniStat for my house, about $300, nice standalone thermostat with published serial protocol.

If you have an Omni security automation system to go with it you get IP access (again published protocol with a few iPhone apps) and the Thermostat can change temp based on security system state(away, night, etc.) or you can write automation code on the Omni to do whatever or use the IP protocol to do eve more from a real computer.

You don't want PC controlling the A/C directly, the OmniStat will continue to function without it's smarter controllers if need be, same with security, thats why I like my Omni system, it's a rock solid "lower brain stem" for my house while the PC is the "higher brain functions" that can go offline if need be without too much disruption.

http://homeauto.com/Products/Omnistat/Omnistat2Products.asp

Supports 2-stage cool/ 3-stage heat too, but really needs a common wire for power, no batteries.

Re: iPod godfather and ex-iPhone team launch previously stealth startup

#66

Post by ianferrel »

av500 wrote: post #40

nice thing, but instead of (re-)heating your home all the time "to the point", it makes much more sense to keep it at (almost) constant temperature by not letting the heat escape, which means good insulation.

Good insulation is orthogonal to a thermostat. Regardless of how good your insulation is, you will occasionally need to adjust the temperature by active means (in most climates). For that, you need a thermostat.

Re: iPod godfather and ex-iPhone team launch previously stealth startup

#67

Post by doublerebel »

ethank wrote: post #63

If this supported the Insteon protocol life would be really really good in my house. No word on their site if it does or not. Right now I have a Venstar thermostat that is hooked into Insteon on my MacMini server.

I really hope they support existing protocols, Insteon being my first choice as well. But, it also won't suprise me if they go Apple-style proprietary, and I won't be a customer.

If they truly care about efficiency then interoperability is a must. It's wasteful when you have to buy and create new products just for compatibility.

Re: iPod godfather and ex-iPhone team launch previously stealth startup

#69

Post by ethank »

doublerebel wrote: post #67
ethank wrote: post #63

If this supported the Insteon protocol life would be really really good in my house. No word on their site if it does or not. Right now I have a Venstar thermostat that is hooked into Insteon on my MacMini server.

I really hope they support existing protocols, Insteon being my first choice as well. But, it also won't suprise me if they go Apple-style proprietary, and I won't be a customer. If they truly care about efficiency then interoperability is a must. It's wasteful when you have to buy and create new products just for compatibility.

If they add an API, you could theoretically get your Insteon controller (I use Indigo from Perceptive Automation) to pull from it, or maybe Indigo could support its protocol.

Re: iPod godfather and ex-iPhone team launch previously stealth startup

#70

Post by noonespecial »

jm4 wrote: post #56
noonespecial wrote: post #13

I'm wondering about the installation part. It doesn't seem to me that the average user is just doing to go grab one and get it in himself. I made my own computerized replacement for the thermostat in my house(1) and discovered that there were about 5 different possible wiring patterns depending on if you've got heat pumps, multi-stage, e-heat, gas, etc. After much research I figured out how they are wired, how my hou…

Very cool. Mind sharing some details? Did you blog it? What kind of hardware did you use? How did you figure out how/what to do? What other "smart-house stuff" did you come up with?

Sadly I didn't blog it or even take pictures. I didn't set out with the "this is going to be an awesome project" geek-out mentality. I started small and it kind of accreted over about a year.

Main computer: Embedded linux platform called "Soekris Net4801". http://soekris.com/products/net4801.html

Linux Distro: "Voyage" Readonly embedded. http://linux.voyage.hk/

Lighting controls were Insteon from smarthome.com.(1)

I made one of these with arduino and a servo for the front door and linked it with xbee radios. http://hackaday.com/2011/06/30/diy-servo-activated-door-lock...

My HVAC interface was a 5-wire (we had heat-pump and e-heat) so I made a relay board that was controlled by arduino that ran off the 24v supplied by the furnace. There are common wire colors that are industry standard. Mine were installed wrong causing many headaches.

(1) Oh hey! look. They've got a selction of insteon compatible and wifi thermostats now! All for less than $200! Nice.

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