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My students cheated... a lot

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Re: My students cheated... a lot

#81

Post by MRobb91827 »

I'm really torn on whether this was handled right. A real thing in the pandemic is that everyone was cheating all the time, at every level. Students looking at there phone when they weren't suppose to, printing things out, being in various chats, whatever. It seemed sort of the norm at the time I would say realistically.

Reporting someone for academic dishonesty is a deathblow to any kind of application to higher ed. This was an undergrad psych class I think? Anyone there trying to get into the PhD programs is in for a world of trouble now, that's a competitive place.

It's not that I think cheating is good, I just wonder if these students peers in this class/other schools who had better outcomes did things the right way, or maybe they just didn't have a professor who enjoys this so much that he will spend weeks writing R code to fully catch everything. That seems like an arbitrary way to have a dream end, I dunno.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#82

Post by necovek »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #39
Scramblejams wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always felt that my score was my own, and didn't care about comparing against others. Tough to do when you’re sharing a curve with a bunch of cheaters, and the grades matter for your future. I know in the program I attended I was up against a fair few who were taking cognition enhancing drugs, others who had exam copies from prior years to help them prep, and a lot of people who copied each others’ homework. It was…

> cognition enhancing drugs, others who had exam copies from prior years to help them prep, and a lot of people who copied each others’ homework I feel drugs and copying are quite different - the guy on drugs did put in the work and the effort, after all.

For what it's worth, I feel similar to you, including for sports. Basically, life threatening things should be prohibited, but everything else is free-for-all.

This would eliminate a lot of cheating, and a lot of advantages for those in a good position (better access to new drugs and nutrition, better recovery programs, better training programs — aren't they all unfair at some level?)...

The ultimate goal is to get us to experience the top level combination of talent and effort, both in science/work and otherwise. Getting there is never going to be completely fair (hey, you scored better on it even though you prepared for 3 days and I took 30: tough luck for me, I guess, but the fact you are more talented for that exam is not something I can do anything about).

I've also seen non-cheating people who are excellent at exam taking (great scores) without ever taking anything from the actual material (zero learnings). I've never felt threatened by them either, though maybe I would have if I wanted to pursue an academic career.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#83

Post by themodelplumber »

jmull wrote: post #64

I honestly don’t get widespread cheating like this… You’re paying so much money for these courses — probably a ridiculous amount, so much you may never recoup — … so at least get everything out of it you can. Otherwise, why sign up in the first place? Let me tell you: essentially no one cares what grade you got in your courses. (Sure, there are cases, but over time they quickly attenuate from “sometimes” to “never” a…

A lot of the students (and people in general) have a low-level cleverness obsession which handily blocks out high-level perception like that.

Then the blocked out part becomes neglected so it turns kind of on/off in nature. It now gives you either super great or awful information.

So as a result, it's not that you don't see the big picture. It's that your inadvertent feedback loop converted high level thinking into a huge scary monster of high-level disasters that will seemingly result if you aren't as clever as can be.

This also explains the cleverness in the face of everything else. Caught? Email back and be clever. Etc. Don't ever stop being clever, caught or no. It is your only (seeming) chance.

But did you also catch the high level thinking student who was feeling stuck and potentially screwed, in their honesty? They realize the system might just as easily punish them. They are also lucky the professor had a considerate perspective rather than a blanket-projection attitude that many have. They are also lucky they weren't randomly selected by the cleverness cabal...

(Also notice that really good professors make for reliable bridges between high and low level perspectives, with expectations of the former but also multi-dimensional empathy for those living the low-level system. This professor is indeed a very clever person on their own. So for them this is situation is probably less likely to result in massive disillusionment as it would for pure high-level folks.)

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#84

Post by remram »

aledalgrande wrote: post #66

Order of importance you get told at school: grades, experience, network. Order of importance you realize is out there in life: network, experience, grades. I have a masters and never have I been asked for it for work (either for credentials or because I actually needed the advanced topics in it). Grades never ever been on the table.

Do you mean that it's not on your CV, or that you don't send out CVs?

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#85

Post by dpbriggs »

geraldwhen wrote: post #59
pvg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing is that college is voluntary You voluntarily agree to abide by the academic integrity rules. If you don't want to do that, you can voluntarily go to a different institution with different rules and standards. The goal of the place is learning not pointscoring and cheating undermines that.

The goal of college is to receive a degree to unlock job postings. I did not go to college to “learn”, and I’m not sure I know anyone who did.

It can be both. You can learn and earn those credentials.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#86

Post by honkler »

huh. i am a proud cheater. the entire chain of command, from local bureacrat to the chief of fed, and all company execs are cheaters. so why not me? I'd be a fool if i didnt trick the system.

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#87

Post by dpbriggs »

honkler wrote: post #86

huh. i am a proud cheater. the entire chain of command, from local bureacrat to the chief of fed, and all company execs are cheaters. so why not me? I'd be a fool if i didnt trick the system.

I personally find cheating repulsive. Are you not bothered by the lack of integrity?

Re: My students cheated... a lot

#88

Post by [deleted] »

aledalgrande wrote: post #66

Order of importance you get told at school: grades, experience, network. Order of importance you realize is out there in life: network, experience, grades. I have a masters and never have I been asked for it for work (either for credentials or because I actually needed the advanced topics in it). Grades never ever been on the table.

[deleted]
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